Posted on 03/22/2015 5:47:53 PM PDT by grumpa
WHEN IS (WAS) THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
by Charles S. Meek
“And they will deliver YOU up to tribulation. . . .” (Matthew 24:9)
“For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.” (Luke 21:22)
“For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole EARTH.” (Luke 21:35)
The Olivet Discourse contains the greatest body of prophecy in the New Testament outside of Revelation. It is found in the parallel passages of Matthew 24/25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The above passages in the Olivet Discourse are referring to the Great Tribulation at Jesus’ Parousia (his effectual divine presence in judgment). Was Jesus speaking of the entire globe as we know it today, or was He speaking of the world in which He and his contemporaries lived, that is, Judea?
The word translated as “earth” in Luke 21 is the Greek word ge. The online Blue Letter Bible interlinear gives several meanings for this word, including: (a) the inhabited earth, (b) country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, or region. As always, context and audience relevance determine how to interpret the Bible. Let’s take a look at another time we find this word in the immediate context of the Olivet Discourse:
Matthew 23:35—“That upon YOU may come all the righteous blood shed upon the EARTH [ge], from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias.” This is a clear reference to the Jewish people, and not to all the people on the globe.
In addition to Luke 21:35, Luke’s version of the Olivet Discourse contains the same word “ge” in another verse—verse 21: “There shall be great distress in the LAND [ge].” Jesus is obviously speaking about Jerusalem, which is confirmed by the further context:
In Luke 21:20-21 Jesus tells his followers that they will know when the Tribulation is upon them by the appearance of armies around Jerusalem, and that they can escape the Tribulation by fleeing to the mountains. These instructions limit the extent of the Tribulation to the immediate region—not the whole globe as we think of it today. It matches perfectly with the events surrounding the invasion of Judea by the Roman army in AD 66-70, at which time over a million Jews were killed and the temple demolished.
In the Olivet Discourse, we find several clear time restrictions: (1) At least seven times Jesus restricts the events to those to whom He is speaking, by such phrases as “When YOU see. . . .” Consider: Matthew 24:6, 9, 15, 33, 34, 44; Luke 21:20. (2) For further emphasis, Jesus said, “For THIS IS THE TIME of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.” Luke 21:22 (3) Just in case they were too dense to get it, He emphasized, “Truly I tell you, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” Luke 21:32 (4) And, if it there was any lingering doubt about when it would happen, He said, “Pray that you may be able to escape all that is ABOUT TO happen.” (Luke 21:36, see the NIV or literal translations such as the YLT)
But wait. Jesus said it would be the worst tribulation ever (Matthew 24:21). Wasn’t the holocaust worse? Jesus’ frequent use of hyperbole aside, in terms of Jewish history AND covenant, the events surrounding AD 70 were indeed, without exaggeration, the most horrific days ever to befall God’s people.
What about Revelation? Well, John said he was in the tribulation WHEN HE WAS WRITING Revelation! See Revelation 1:9 and 2:9-10. Dozens of scholars are persuaded that Revelation was written in the 60’s AD. So John’s “tribulation” could have been referring to either the Christian persecution under Nero during AD 64-68 or to the devastating events of the Jewish-Roman War in AD 66-70. In either case, this is consistent with Jesus’ numerous “this generation” statements.
Conclusion: The events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem as predicted by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse were restricted by Him to the region and the people of Judea in the first century. This was the Great Tribulation. There is NO indication in God’s Word that it will ever happen again. To read a future “great tribulation” into the text does violence to the promises of Jesus.
For more information, see my websites:
https://prophecyquestions.wordpress.com
http://www.faithfacts.org/world-religions-and-theology/the-biblical-last-days
https://www.facebook.com/EvangelicalPreterism
error! “Matthew 23:35—“That upon YOU may come all the righteous blood shed upon the EARTH [ge], from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias.” This is a clear reference to the Jewish people, and not to all the people on the globe. “
Abel is not Jewish is he?
He said “some of you standing here”.
Some were still alive in 70 AD just as He foretold.
Most theologians will say that only one of them was alive in 70AD. Only one of the 12.
They keep posting these pieces without addressing the comments in the previous installment.
AMEN - Finally some end-time discussions I can fully agree with. Why some try so hard to “twist” the words of Jesus to mean something they do not say is beyond me.
Thanks!!
The only item in prophecy left to be fulfilled is Judgement Day.
That’s what was taught in Christendom, up till relatively recently.
"But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare." Justin Martyr Dialogue With Trypho c 140 AD.
Preterist nonsense alert. Flat earth society.
Immediately after the tribulation he's speaking of? Are you arguing that the Son of Man has already returned? Immediately after the tribulation surrounded around Nero and the destruction of the temple?
Passover 5775 it begins
Only known by God the Father.
Revelation 16:21 “And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”
According to Josephus the heavy common talent weighed around 133 pounds. It’s funny nobody wrote any history about 133 pound hailstones.
This is a good thread to mark as the foolishness of those who really think the Great Tribulation has passed, have spoken such with their own words. Such are their words and their witness between themselves, they stand doubly accused by their own words.
The internal and external evidence does not support full preterism nor partial preterism.
With the large use of lexicon replacement of the Greek, failure to address the Hebrew scriptures and yet unfulfilled prophecy, a preterism should just stick with the amil view of prophecy.
A good metric for prophecy fulfillment is to look at the Messianic prophecies. Many were “tucked in” passages with multiple subjects. Not easily seen to the eye. We see this with the religious authorities of Jesus Christ’s time. But what can all Christians agree on? Everyone of the Messianic prophecies were fulfilled literally down to the jot and tittle.
As we know there are Messianic prophecies yet to be fulfilled. Jesus said so. When we look at those TaNaKh passages on His second coming (and verified in the NT) why are we to assume Messiah will turn to allegory or symbol when thus far all have been literal? To make this shift is inconsistent. Either inconsistent or a lack of faith Messiah will do exactly what He said He would do.
So I see a lot of wresting of the Greek, ignoring the Hebrew scriptures (OT) and more wresting of firm external evidence trying to put John’s writing of Revelation prior to 70 AD.
Preterists are better off being amil. At least they are consistent in their approach. They at least look forward to the second coming of Christ.
Eschatology is a great subject to study and discuss. Those passages and books are there for a reason. Let us not kick each other away from the Lord’s Table over it.
Those people should have read their Bibles a little more carefully. Israel had to become a nation first (May 1948), also, antichrist will have to be revealed (those who have wisdom let them count the number of his name - who has wisdom? The saints that’s who) when he reveals his true identity in the temple - that’s the Jewish temple. To understand Rev. you must understand the book of Daniel. Antiochus Epiphanes was a type of the antichrist as was Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar and Herod. There will be another Jewish Temple. It may not be impressive but there will be one. There will be a world government which the antichrist will rule over and there will be great persecution. The persecution will be of true believers. The world will love this guy - he will give them what they want - at least for awhile. I know this is a area where there is a lot of disagreement but I think the wise are getting ready to suffer for their faith. Christ (as others have said here) stated that there would never be a time like it on the whole earth ever again. There’s a LOT of problems saying it has already happened. Wishful thinking and poor exegesis I think. I wonder if they know or used the Midrash, the Jewish Hermeneutic or not?
Good point. What I want to know is how antichrist and his armies were destroyed in 70 AD.
Preterism tells us Rome was the armies of antichrist yet they win! Revelation 19 shows us the invading armies are bird food.
Plus I think folks back then knew the difference between surface to surface indirect fire weapons and something falling from the “heavens.”
The Great Tribulation begins on April 23, 2019.
No, I am not kidding.
See the spreadsheet associated with the following article.
Look for cell W24.
https://unsealedprophecy.wordpress.com/2014/11/24/psalm-83-war-september-2015/
Excellent point. Jesus himself saying when the Son of Man will come and...the Father only knows the time, when, event . Thus, that has not happened yet. The thing Meek is forgetting is in the OT and NT, there are 3 types of prophecy: present, near future, future future. Jesus dealt with them all as does...Rev., Isa., Zach., et al. Yet the Nero era was a Tribulation. As was the events in the 20th c. and who knows how this era, age will be described when Obama gets through with history!???
There were more than 12 followers of Jesus. Only one of the 12 apostles was still alive.
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Since we do know that the elect will be resurrected at the close of the Trib, the only way it could be a past event is if we are all losers!
Polycarp put the writing of the Revelation around AD 91 or 92.
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