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To: Arthur McGowan
And you keep ignoring the fact that you are not just stating a belief that there *may* be many non-Catholics who have received BOD .... you have stated over and over again that you are *sure* that this is the case. Not one of us can be sure just how many people were baptized by desire since the time of Christ. It is not for us to quantify this whether we do it with numbers or with adjectives. All such rhetoric gives the impression to Catholics and non-Catholics alike that non-Catholics are saved ...and a lot.

I'll also note that you changed your story from talking about the six billion people in the world to the billions of people since the time of Christ. Not that that changes my view at all, but it is interesting to note.

And as for your latest dig about "how a theological point that is irrelevant to every person on earth can assume such vital importance to some people is a mystery":

I don't normally discuss this topic much (actually, after dealing with a number of Feeneyites I actually tend to avoid it). What raised my hackles was your continued insistence that you know for a fact that there are many Jews, pagans, and Muslims in Heaven despite the fact that the Church teaches that it is extremely difficult for a non-Catholic to get to Heaven (or at least it used to...now we have a hierarchy that doesn't even care if non-Catholics convert or not).

Most of the Catholics on this board will listen to you because you are supposedly a priest (and I admit that I'm beginning to question that). If you truly believe that BOD is a possibility and not a given, then you need to be careful of how you word things. Because, although you seem to think BOD is irrelevant it's actually quite relevant when it is spoken about in such a way to give others the impression that it's just a loophole for non-Catholics who never get baptized with water. You should also be real clear on what is needed to obtain BOD. It is most definitely not just for really good, ignorant Jews and really good, ignorant Muslims.

And now I'm really done here.

112 posted on 03/17/2015 1:26:08 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

When I said I was “sure” I meant, simply, that I think it is unreasonable to believe the opposite, namely: BoD is possible in principle, but it has NEVER happened.

It is trivial whether I said six billion or “billions since the time of Christ.” That would be six billion or what?—ten billion, fifteen billion?

So what if a billion non-Christians got into heaven? That would make the Catholic Church superfluous?


113 posted on 03/17/2015 4:48:41 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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