Pope wants to scrap centuries-old ban on priests marrying

The Daily Mail ^ | 3/12/2015 | Matt Roper

[Legatus]

A childhood friend of Pope Francis has claimed that he intends to overturn the centuries-old ban on Catholic priests from getting married and that he told a divorcee 'living in sin' that she could receive Holy Communion.

The Pope considers the law on priestly celibacy 'archaic' and 'not part of the doctrine of the Church', according to the confidante.

The friend also claimed the Argentinian-born pope also vowed to reform another Catholic rule which bars divorced people in new relationships from taking the Holy Communion, MailOnline can reveal.

[Arthur McGowan]

The Eucharist makes present THE nuptial act (Christ’s crucifixion and death) that unites Christ and his bride, the Church.

Starting within the lifetimes of the apostles, the conviction began, and grew, that the role of the priest in celebrating the Eucharist required perfect and perpetual continence of the priest.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for this detailed and thoughtful explanation. Very interesting.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Dear Arthur ---- As far as I know, the tradition of priestly continence is observed in Orthodoxy(and maybe in Eastern Catholicism) only in that the married priest abstains from intercourse with his wife ("fasts") for a period of time --- like maybe, a day ---- before offering the Divine Liturgy.

I am no expert on this. Perhaps you can tell us more, Hostage?

[Arthur McGowan]

Check this out:

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/79-history/465-celibacy-in-the-early-church.html

[Arthur McGowan]

This is excellent:

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/79-history/465-celibacy-in-the-early-church.html

[Mrs. Don-o]

Metmom, it's their choice. If a man is convinced within himself that he is called to celibacy, he may be called to the celibate branch of clergy: Priest. If he is called to marriage, he may (also) be called to the non-celibate branch of clergy: Deacon.

At present there are 17,000 married permanent deacons in the Catholic Church in the USA. (Most of them still married; some are widowers.) A rather big vocational choice. My own parish has 2 priests and 3 married deacons.

In every case, it is the man's own decision, based on his own sense of his calling and the call he receives from the Church (Bishop). Plus several preparatory years to discern his vocation and make sure it's solid and genuine.

I don't see a problem with this. Don't you think that a man should be allowed to opt for celibacy of his own free choice?

[DungeonMaster]

Quit calling them priests too. How about calling them elders or pastors?

[patton]

“2. The Pope is not king.”

Actually, the pope is the last absolute monarch in Europe.

If he tells the Swiss Guard to cut off your head, they will do it.

But only in Vatican city, of course.

You must run very fast, grasshopper.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The Catholic Church in the West (Latin) has both celibate clergy (priests) and non-celibate clergy (deacons). It's the way we're organized, and it has recognized advantages, e.g.

• the Bishop can transfer his priests around at a moment's notice, without having to worry about dislocating the wife and kids;
• the priest doesn't have to earn enough to send his kids to college or even pay for their health insurance;
• his availability to his parish is 24/7 and undivided by the huge responsibilities of a family, etc. etc.
• celibacy has its own theological significance as an imitation of Paul and, for that matter, Christ.
• Arthur McGowan can elaborate on this much better than I can

It has recognized disadvantages, too, principally in that the numbers of men who choose (or are called to ) celibacy are always much smaller than the numbers of men who are not.

Note that 21 of the 22 Churches of the Catholic Church (i.e. under the jurisdiction of the Pope) do have married priests. Only the Latins do not. If I were a man who felt a vocation both to marriage and the priesthood, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't demand that the ONE branch of Catholicism which has a celibate priesthood, should change their rules for me!

There are three ranks of clergy in the Catholic Church: deacons, priests, and bishops. But, if I can ask this without offense, why do you ignore our married clergy, the deacons? It seems to me that your objections, whatever they are, fall apart when you consider that there are 10's of thousands of married men around the world who have received the Sacrament of Holy Orders in the Western (Latin) Church in the Permanent Diaconate.

You speak of choice, yet you seem to be against men having all these choices.

[kidd]

Hogwash. Childish hogwash.

The Pope’s infallibility is limited to matters of doctrine:

- The Pope must teach as supreme doctor (teacher) of the whole world.
- The Pope must be defining a doctrine of faith or morals.
- You can recognize a statement of infallibility if it begins with something like: “We declare,” “We define,” or “We pronounce”

If it is missing any of these, then the Pope is not speaking “ex cathedra” and his statement is not infallible. The Pope doesn’t get to do whatever he wants to do.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Sorry to annoy you with the facts but compulsory clerical celibacy was not imposed until much later in Church history.

“It is said on good authority that, in the tenth and eleventh centuries half of the priests, in some countries more than half...lived openly as fathers of families.”

Source: A Complete History of the Catholic Church to Present Day by Rev. John Laux.

Rev. Laux btw was a Catholic priest. Further the issue was still being debated as late as the Council of Trent in the 16th Century:

According to Wikipedia.com:

“The Council of Trent considered the matter at its twenty-fourth session decreed that marriage AFTER (emphasis added) ordination was invalid.” So evidently married priests were permitted if they were married before ordination.

The policy was never fully accepted or enforced in much of Europe. Also in 16th Century England, Cardinal Wolsey, the most powerful man in the country-—after the King-—lived quite openly with his common law wife and two children. Truth be told compulsory clerical celibacy was never forcefully enforced until much later.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Actually, simony-—the sin of buying and selling ecclesiastical preferments, benefices etc, and nepotism were rampant among the clergy during the Middle Ages. So were other corrupt practices including the sale of papal indulgences which lead to the Reformation.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

You are correct as usual.

It would be nice if the advocates of compulsory clerical celibacy would provide reasons why the policy is still needed or necessary. Certainly nothing in the Bible requires such a policy.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Thanks for confirming one of my basic points:

That marriage among the clergy was common practice for many centuries before compulsory clerical celibacy was institutionalized.

I think reasonable can discuss the issue, debate it, and have differing views on it. In our archdiocese, we have a number of married priests (mostly converts from the Episcopalian Church)and they do just fine. So do Orthodox priests for that matter and Catholic priests in Eastern Europe and the Middle East where Catholic clergy are permitted to be married. No one has any issues with it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You're nuts if you think a Swiss Guard would cut off somebody's head because the Pope told him to. Everbody knows that no ecclesiastical person (or no person whatever) has the authority to command a sin.

The Swiss Guard would probably pull out his cell phone and call for reinforcements while he arrested the decapitation-advocate for impersonating a pope.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Of interest:

#129

[seawolf101]

That is very interesting. Thank you for the info.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

I personally don’t think compulsory clerical celibacy will be done away with all at once with decree from the Pope or something like that. It took the Church many many centuries to implement the current policy of compulsory clerical celibacy and Catholic priest are already permitted to be married in certain parts of the world as are priests who convert over from other denominations. It will be a slow process. Divorce should be saved for another topic. The Bible and the Gospels and Jesus are pretty specific on that topic. Most other religious denominations permit married priests including the Orthodox Church. George Stephanopolous’s father is a Greek Orthodox priest.

[Hostage]

I have never heard of any code of conduct or rules regarding sexual relations between Priest and Matushka.

What I have seen is that Priest and Matushka have children and their children are not given any special privilege other than their proximity to their parents and Orthodoxy tends to prepare and motivate them for monasteries. So it’s not surprising that these children become monastics.

But on the subject of Orthodox children, I have posted before some interesting observations and especially to the meaning of ‘brothers’ and ‘sisters’ as labels for actual brothers and sisters as well as FIRST COUSINS. Also in the vein of this observation is the role of God Parents. God Parents in Orthodoxy have serious, very serious responsibilities. Every child in an Orthodox community has God Parents and those God Parents are responsible for the life of their God Children both when they are children and when they are adults. In fact God Parents are more often the most influential in an Orthodox person’s life.

Back to the subject, I have never heard of restrictions on sexual relations for Priest and Matushka. But I imagine some priests have to prepare for their spiritual responsibilities to their Parish and in doing so they adopt to refrain from sexual relations at certain times so as to better focus on their priestly duties. But I really don’t know; just never heard of any hard fast rule and I doubt one exists.

I have known of Orthodox priests with 14 children born from Matushka. So I don’t see a restriction here!

[Mrs. Don-o]

I got the info about sexual abstinence before Liturgy from a married Orthodox priest (with 3 kids) who was ROCOR at the time. It might have been a distinctively hard-core-ROCOR practice. I really don't know.

Periodic abstinence --- depending on how it's done -- does not generally have a negative impact on fertility; that is, unless you're purposefully abstaining at the fertile time of the cycle. Using planned periodic abstinence to enhance fertility --- as the most observant Orthodox Jews do, per Torah law ---- is also one of the features of NFP.

Intercourse can result in pregnancy only 5-6 days of the month at most. So there's a 75-80% chance that a couple that abstains a bit based on the Liturgical Calendar is abstaining at an infertile time anyway.