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To: LearsFool

***You even quoted the verse that tells us why that seemed a prudent thing for Paul to do. **

Do you have a problem that “by works a man is justified” JAMES, the leader of the Jerusalem CHRISTIAN Church telling Paul to go offer sacrifices in the Temple? WHY were the Jerusalem Christians still offering animal sacrifices!

And if I wanted to change the subject I would mention that other bugbear (gasp)INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC or kitchens in the church building or a half dozen other doctrines that separate five little Campbellite churches in this area.

Quite a few web pages point to Nicander (200BC) writing of making pickles by plunging, and removing(bapto) into boiling water, then Baptizing(Baptizo) them in vinegar.

St Paul states: 1Corinthians 12:13:
For by one Spirit are we all baptized (baptizo) into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Again, water baptism is still after the fact that the person is saved. Same as Cornelius was saved before his in and out water baptism.

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137 posted on 03/05/2015 5:21:24 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Again, water baptism is still after the fact that the person is saved.

In Mark 16:15-16, Jesus said the preaching of the gospel would sort people into two categories: the saved and the damned.

So here's a simple question for you: This person YOU say is saved without baptism, which category does JESUS say is he in?

Who should people trust, you or Jesus?

Peter says baptism saves us, but you say it doesn't. Peter says baptism is for the remission of sins.

Who should people trust, you or Jesus' apostle Peter?

Paul says baptism is where the old man, the slave of sin is crucified with Christ, and the new man, the free man is raised with Him. He says that to be "of Christ" requires being baptized into Christ.

Who should people trust, you or Jesus' apostle Paul?

It's not that the gospel is hard to understand. Some people just don't believe it. They're in the 2nd category.
139 posted on 03/05/2015 6:36:57 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; LearsFool; All
...water baptism is still after the fact that the person is saved. Same as Cornelius was saved before his in and out water baptism.

Not sure it all can be neatly "formulized" in NT...

For example, Jesus told Saul to be baptized...and calling on His Name was interwoven at same time (if not after)
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’ (Acts 22)

Secondly, there seemed to be some pretty almost instant across-the-board family-wide baptisms (Acts 16:14-15, 33). These were pretty sudden turn-abouts with seemingly little to none indications that these were a slow-cooking family member-by-family member "canvass" of individual faith beliefs...IoW, it's pretty easy for Westernized Evangelicals to insert their individualistic confession of faith into Biblical scenes enacted in corporate minded Middle Eastern cultures.

Also, were not given a complete formula that applied each time to all of the baptisms as recorded in Acts 2:41; 8:37; 9:5-6, 17-18; 10:47; 11:16-17; 16:14-15; 16:33; Acts 18:8; 1 Cor. 1:16; Gal. 3:26-27).

I mean receiving the Holy Spirit -- vital for a real REbirth -- is mentioned in Acts 9, 10, & 11...but not in the other references above.

161 posted on 03/05/2015 9:50:05 PM PST by Colofornian
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