Posted on 03/05/2015 2:28:53 AM PST by RaceBannon
At the link. Blue Letter Bible.
I agree.
In 1Pet 3:21 'by' is dia...What's up with that??? Blue Letter Bible
I’ve looked at all of the literal English translations. Only the KJV uses “by” for ‘dia’ for 1 Peter 3:20.
Even the super literal almost mechanical YLT has through for ‘dia.’
YLT:
20 who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah — an ark being preparing — in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;
The LEB which is also a literal translation from LOGOS has this:
LEB:
20 who were formerly disobedient, when the patience of God waited in the days of Noah, while an ark was being constructed, in which a few—that is, eight souls—were rescued through water.
These issues should not be so difficult for any of us. Seeing you are well versed in Holy Scriptures, I will outline some Biblical facts. If you see I missed something let me know.
We know from the preponderance of the Biblical evidence one is saved by God’s Grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That is the gospel.
We also know from the preponderance of the Biblical evidence we are justified by faith.
Faith is just one of the works, not the only one. Can’t have faith without “hearing”, belief(faith), repentance, confession, and baptism. All of which are biblical doctrines.
We do know Paul commented that he did baptize people but that he was sent to preach the Gospel and not to baptize.
Christ did the same.
From that statement we can conclude that water baptism is not specifically the Gospel message.
Paul didn’t mention confession, hearing, believing, or confession in that sentence either. Are we to conclude that they aren’t part of the gospel message either?
We know the Gospel message Paul outlined in 1 Corinthians 15 was the same Gospel preached by all the apostles. Of which Paul outlines the Gospel message is Christ crucified, died and Risen (praise God!).
Christ is the gospel. His death, burial, and resurrection.
We know from Christ’s own lips that “he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”
Yes Christ said that and I believe that. He also said: “ He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned’” Do you believe these words of Christ also...? Belief (faith) AND BAPTISM. Not belief only.
Expanding on the above we have Paul in Romans 8 telling us “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
All are predestined to either heaven or hell, the choice is ours.
The NT witness, however, also tells us that those who heard and believed the above also got in some form of body of water and were baptized. I agree one cannot escape the FACT that those who “were cut to the heart” (Acts 2) believing the Gospel presented to them were baptized that day without hesitation or theological debate.
Why? Peter goes on to say that as many as obeyed the gospel were “added to the Church. Acts 2:41 “ Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.”
Now why do we have such controversy here? I think it is because some see baptism as a human ‘work of righteousness.’
Baptism is a work, it is a work of Christ, not of man.
It is not because it is commanded as some will say;
Christ commanded it in Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16. It was even commanded of Paul in Acts 22:16.
but I say as with those on Pentecost those who are “cut to the heart” with the offering of the Gospel of Grace, are baptized.
The sure were so that they could get forgiveness of sins just as Peter stated. Same with Paul in Acts 22:16.
I’m sure you nor anyone else proclaiming Christ as Lord and savior believe the actual water or one who is the baptizer have any mysterious salvific qualities or ‘elements’ involved.
No. It’s just a simple matter of obedience to the command of Christ to do it. Why would I profess belief and faith and Christ and then not trust him?
We know from the preponderance of the Biblical evidence (frankly from the actual God given light to us!) that it is by Grace we are saved through faith.
What good is faith without obedience?
Finally, I will leave a thought provoking comment and reference which all can examine if they care to do so. The below is the Great Commission. Notice the ‘defining’ verb for the Great Commission is “to teach.” In Mark 16 and a few more modern English versions the ‘defining’ verb is “preach the Gospel.” Which supports the previously mentioned “they were cut to the heart” believed and were baptized.
Yes they were cut to the heart but more importantly they acted on their belief and obeyed what Peter instructed them to do. They were baptized and added to the Church.
From Matthew 28:
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.(KJV)
You will notice Christ said what I have “commanded” you to do. Which of the above commandments do you think is not essential to our salvation Teaching? Baptism? Going? Or are they all essential?
Our Church fathers include the apostles. I would say they were strongly associated with those seven churches.
Is the command to be baptized from God or man...?
Baptism was commanded and instituted by Christ for His Church in the first century, hundreds of years before the creation of the catholic religion.
Is the command to be baptized from God or man
Jesus Christ gave the command and He is fully God, therefore the command came from God.
the Campbellite’s have a problem since they claim the Church needed to be “restored”, this means Campbell himself had to have been baptized by a non-Christian, which goes against the NT that he claimed to be following.
the COC can’t explain nor defend this.
the other problem Campbell had is the Church could not go apostate according to the Scriptures.
Ephesians 3:21
to him be glory in the church and in Jesus Christ TO ALL GENERATIONS, for ever and ever. Amen.
“all generations” covers all generations in EVERY century.
the so called COC appeared for the first time on the earth in the 19th century, along with the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.
the real Universal Church of Christ has been on earth in every generation for close to 2,000 years now.
hundreds of years before the creation of the catholic religion
who started the catholic religion, in what year and name some COC leaders at the time that opposed this new false religion?
Where do your comments pick up?
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.(KJV
see how Campbell contradicted the words of Jesus? Jesus promised to be with the Church ALWAYS, EVEN UNTO THE OF THE WORLD.
Campbell taught the Church went “apostate” and needed to be “restored” ( by him of course lol )
I’m not sure what Campbell has to do with this discussion, nor how he got brought into it.
I’m not “of Campbell” - nor of Stone, nor Calvin, nor Wesley, nor Luther, nor Graham, nor Pope So-and-So.
I am of Christ, Him having been crucified for me, and me having been baptized into His name (I Cor. 1:13).
Campbell was right insofar as he followed the Scriptures, and wrong insofar as he departed from them. The same is true for each one of us.
Are you departing from the Scriptures when you say the Bible requires that one be baptized only by a Christian? Where can I read that for myself?
You can read that for yourself in Matthew 28:16-20.
When one follows the teachings of a 19th century false prophet as opposed to the Apostolic Faith, one is of that person whether they want to admit it or not.
Doesn’t seem the right passage
Jesus gave his authority to baptize to the Apostles, who then laid hands on other men giving them this authority, who then laid hands.........in every generation for close to 2,000 years now.
Now to those following the 19th century tradition of men taught by Campbell that the Church went apostate and needed to be restored, this seems strange.
Yet, everyone baptized in the NT was baptized by a Christian. Why wasn’t Campbell?
Do you believe the Church went apostate at some point in history and needed to be “restored” in the 19th century?
“see how Campbell contradicted the words of Jesus? Jesus promised to be with the Church ALWAYS, EVEN UNTO THE OF THE WORLD.
Campbell taught the Church went “apostate” and needed to be “restored” ( by him of course lol )”
Rev. 2:4-5
4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
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