At Last, A Council for the Ages?

First Things ^ | 3/3/15 | Rev. Dr. John Chryssavgis

[marshmallow]

The Great Council of the Orthodox Church in 2016

A Holy and Great Council of the Orthodox Church has been scheduled for 2016. In March of 2014, the leaders of all the autocephalous (independent) Orthodox Churches met in Istanbul, the sacred see of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which historically (since at least the fifth century) coordinates such assemblies, facilitating unity while serving as a center of appeal among these churches. Arguably the foremost decision unanimously agreed upon at that assembly of church heads was the convocation of a Great Council in 2016, tentatively planned to be held in the Church of Haghia Irene—the site of the second ecumenical council of 381, which completed the “creed” recited by most Christians today. Haghia Irene is now a museum in Istanbul, never having been converted into a mosque since the fall of Constantinople in 1453.

The council of 2016, which has been on the table for discussion and preparation since at least 1961 (although there were earlier proposals for such a council in the 1920s and 1930s), will for the first time ever gather representatives from all fourteen independent Orthodox Churches. The very conception, let alone the convocation of such a great or general council, is entirely unprecedented. It will be attended by patriarchs, archbishops, and bishops from the fourteen autocephalous Orthodox Churches, including those from all of the ancient patriarchates, with the exception of Rome.

Theological commentators and historical analysts should bear in mind that the process in the Orthodox Church may undoubtedly not appear as orderly or organized as that in some Western churches precisely because it involves a consensus among all churches, rather than the imposition of one church or leader. However, it is naïve to dismiss disagreements among various churches sweepingly, implying that these merely result from rivalries of power. While.........

[NRx]

Ping

[NRx]

From my POV this looks mostly like a fluff piece. But it can be informative to the non-Orthodox, who I am guessing is the primary intended reader. Yes, we are going to have a Great and Holy Council next year and it has produced both yawns and some nervousness depending on who you are talking to.

It sounds like a major effort has been made to script things as tightly as possible. But once you get all those bishops in the church together there is no way to be sure what they will end up doing. If all goes well, it could end up being received as the Tenth Great and Holy Council of the Church.

(The term Ecumenical Council is problematic as many Orthodox believe that it can only be properly applied to councils whose decrees are given the force of law by Imperial Decree. Thus we have had nine Great Councils whose decrees are accepted as binding on the entire Church, but only seven are universally called Ecumenical Councils. But this is mostly semantics since their decrees all carry the same weight within the Church.)

[Kolokotronis]

“From my POV this looks mostly like a fluff piece. “

I know the author. This is not a fluff piece. He doesn’t write “fluff”.

Here’s something to think about:

“...planned to be held in the Church of Haghia Irene—the site of the second ecumenical council of 381, which completed the “creed” recited by most Christians today. Haghia Irene is now a museum in Istanbul, never having been converted into a mosque since the fall of Constantinople in 1453.”

[don-o]

A united and unequivocal response to extremist and subversive elements and factions—sometimes within circles influenced by rigid or reactionary monastics—would be a compelling and committed emphasis on the “royal way” of discernment and moderation adopted by the classic teachers of the early church.

I have direct and personal knowledge of this. There was an American monk (convert) who adopted the belief of a monk on Mount Athos regarding receiving of converts who had been previously baptized outside the Orthodox Church. He held that their baptisim was invalid. The American monk was "rebaptized" on Athos; he was spiritual father to a convert priest who was "rebaptized" and began rebaptizing his parish.

I am pleased to see that the Council may look at this and, perhaps, the concept of spiritual fathers. Damage has been done by "zeal not according to knowledge."

On the jurisdictional matters...recently, a Greek and an Antiochian parish near me merged and are now Greek, served by an priest ordained by the Antiochians. Had they been forward thinking, they should have gone to the Russians (but, I know, I know, which Russians???) because it was the Russians who first evangelized North America.

Saint Herman, pray for us.

[Kolokotronis]

“I have direct and personal knowledge of this. There was an American monk (convert) who adopted the belief of a monk on Mount Athos regarding receiving of converts who had been previously baptized outside the Orthodox Church. He held that their baptisim was invalid. The American monk was “rebaptized” on Athos; he was spiritual father to a convert priest who was “rebaptized” and began rebaptizing his parish”

We Greeks have a name for this, “Crazy convert disease!”

[Arthur McGowan]

My message to the Orthodox:

DON’T DO IT!!!

[redgolum]

Still, it is a good step (as an outsider). The topics discussed cover things like getting the calendars together (doubtful) and what to do with the diaspora churches.

[redgolum]

It isn’t limited to the Greeks.

We Lutherans have a long tradition of arguing with anyone, but not listening to close to the new guy.

[marshmallow]

ROFL.............

[NRx]

LOL I don’t really disagree with you. Historically Councils have only been called to resolve super serious issues that were threatening the unity of the Church and I’m not seeing anything other than possibly the Calendar issue, which has sparked some schisms, that rises to that level.

On the other hand there is no real possibility that this will turn into an Orthodox Vatican II. The worst case scenario is that they won’t be able to come to agreement on many of the thornier problems that they are hoping to tackle. The overwhelming majority of the “Fathers” of this Council come from the monastic ranks. To say that our monks are conservative would be putting it rather gently. Also if memory has not failed me, any document or decree from the Council requires the agreement of all the autocephalous church delegations, with each church having one vote. Unanimity is not required within each delegation, but when the votes are counted, all of the churches must sign off on any document for it to have effect.

[Lonely Bull]

From my POV this looks mostly like a fluff piece. But it can be informative to the non-Orthodox, who I am guessing is the primary intended reader.

I'd be surprised if many non-Orthodox had even heard about plans for the council, let alone the current significance of many of the subjects mentioned in the article.

(I am neither Orthodox nor someone who has any "obvious" reason to be familiar with Orthodox matters, but I've read a bit about religious matters here and there. At the same time, my experience isn't in-depth. For example, I realized upon reading "...most Orthodox Churches seem to be retreating into a stifling, sheltered and safe provincialism...." that I can't think of any specific examples of what he means.)

[NRx]

I can only speak from personal experience, but at least at the two parishes I have belonged to, one OCA the other Greek, there is a wide level of knowledge, though perhaps not ultra detailed, that a Great Council is coming.