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To: CynicalBear

I hardly see any point in replying, since you turned most of what I said inside-out.

My question is: Where does Scripture teach that THOSE WHO ARE IN HEAVEN cannot and do not obey the second great commandment?

YOU claimed that those in heaven CANNOT obey the second great commandment.

But Jesus tells us to obey the two commandments. There is no conflict between the two commandments.

Since you are the one who is contradicting Jesus, you bear a considerable burden of proof.


308 posted on 02/23/2015 10:09:16 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
>>My question is: Where does Scripture teach that THOSE WHO ARE IN HEAVEN cannot and do not obey the second great commandment?<<

There you go with that "prove a negative" again. The only record we have of anyone saying anything in heaven from scripture is those who were beheaded and they were only concerned with vengeance for their deaths.

>>YOU claimed that those in heaven CANNOT obey the second great commandment.<<

I did what? Please show the post where I said that. Otherwise please don't make things up.

>>Since you are the one who is contradicting Jesus, you bear a considerable burden of proof.<<

In not way do I contradict Jesus. Jesus said to go directly to the throne of the Father. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would help us pray and intercede for us. Catholics made up the concept of Mary and their so called "saints" interceding in place of the Holy Spirit.

Catholics follow a Jesus that sinned by eating blood. I follow a sinless Jesus who never once sinned in any way.

310 posted on 02/23/2015 11:29:13 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear; Arthur McGowan

.....”Scripture never once condones praying to anyone who has passed from this life other then God.”......

That’s exactly right...and scripture forbids us from trying to communicate with the dead.

Dead saints remain part of the body of Christ, but there is a separation from the living saints. The same Lord who healed paralytics during his earthly ministry will one day give His people a glorified and immortal body and gather us all together.... Until then we must face the sad consequence of death: separation!

Every Catholic knows that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different than asking a fellow believer for prayer though they often use that as an excuse to pray to their dead saints.................Let’s say then a Christian brother comes and kneels before you, How would you react if he calls you his advocate, his hope and refuge?.... What if he thanks you for the many graces you conferred on him and for delivering him from hell?.... Suppose he tells you that he confines his salvation to your care and pleads with you to stay with him until you see him safe in heaven?.....Would you call that “asking a fellow Christian for prayer”?.... Of course not!

Yet this is exactly what catholics do when they pray to dead saints...., as an example to their Mary, which is not the Mary of the scriptures:

Prayer to Mary by St. Alphonsus.

“Most holy, immaculate Virgin and my Mother Mary! To you who are the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the Advocate, the Hope, and the Refuge of sinners, I have recourse today, I who am the most miserable of all. I render you my most humble homage, O great Queen, and I thank you for all the graces you have conferred on me until now, especially for having delivered me from hell, which I have so often deserved. I love you, O most amiable Lady; and for the love which I bear you, I promise to serve you always and to do all in my power to make others love you also. I place in you all my hopes; I confide my salvation to your care. Accept me for your servant and receive me under your mantle, O Mother of Mercy. And since you are so powerful with God, deliver me from all temptations; or rather, obtain to me the strength to triumph over them until death. Of you I ask a perfect love for Jesus Christ. Through you I hope to die a good death. O my Mother, by the love which you bear to God, I beseech you to help me at all times, but especially at the last moment of my life. Leave me not, I beseech you, until you see me safe in heaven, blessing you and singing your mercies for all eternity. Amen. So I hope. So may it be.”


311 posted on 02/23/2015 11:43:03 AM PST by caww
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