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Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness
Possessing the Treasure ^ | February 16, 2015 | Mike Ratliff

Posted on 02/19/2015 4:20:17 PM PST by RnMomof7

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12 NASB)

In the passage above John the Baptist was addressing a form of spiritual blindness that was afflicting the Pharisees and Sadducees. Is there the same sort of stubborn blindness pertaining to Christianity? Yes, sadly there is. Spiritual blindness is a darkness beyond our ability to describe. This blindness is rampant in the “visible Church” in our day. Jesus prophesied about this.

24 “ Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘ Lord, open up to us! ’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘ I do not know where you are from. ’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from ME, all you evildoers. ’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.” (Luke 13:24-30 NASB)

Many who believe they are Christians are not. They have a form of righteousness, but it is not the righteousness born from above. It is self-righteousness. One group that contended with John the Baptist, Our Lord Jesus Christ and His disciples, was the Pharisees. Who hasn’t heard believers accusing other believers of being a Pharisee? These accusations are usually thrown at people who are stricter than the accuser in their judgments of saved and lost. The Liberal calls a person who judges on the basis of regeneration as the only evidence of saving faith as being a Pharisee. The mainstream church-goer calls all fundamentalists Pharisees. The antinomian calls those who preach Lordship salvation Pharisees.

Is this accurate? Are these examples of modern day Pharisees? Let us look in the Word for our answer.

Who were the Pharisees of the Bible? They were the religious conservatives within Judaism. They held very strictly to the Torah and the Talmud and were outwardly very moral. They were the leaders of the majority of the Jews and were very popular with the common people. They were revered by their followers for their religious zeal and dedication, and they were models worthy if imitation. Their main opposition were the Sadducees, the religious liberals within Judaism. They did not believe that the damned will be punished eternally in hell and that the saved will dwell eternally in heaven. The Sadducees were popular among the high-class minority.

The first mention of the Pharisees in the Bible is found in Matthew 3:7-12, which I placed at the top of this post. Here is is again.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘ We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12 NASB)

Why would John the Baptist say that the Pharisees, who were outwardly moral, zealous, and religious, were the brood of vipers? Why would he say that they had not brought forth good fruit? Isn’t obedience to the law good fruit? Who was he to judge the hearts of these fine upstanding religious people? Wasn’t he being too harsh with them? Couldn’t he have toned it down a bit? Was “brood of vipers” really necessary? Isn’t that mean and unloving? How did he expect to gain an audience with such language? Didn’t he know that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar? And what was he doing lumping them in with the Sadducces, who didn’t even believe in an afterlife?

John the Baptist was absolutely correct in his rebuke of the Pharisees. Both John and our Lord reserved their harshest words for these men as well. The reason Liberal Theology has so decimated the Church in our day is that most Christians have believed the lie that they must not speak up or confront other professing Christians. Why? They believe that it will reflect badly on Christ and the Church to have these contentions made public. However, John the Baptist and our Lord certainly didn’t refrain from telling the truth.

However, before Christians can emulate them, they must know the reason why the Pharisees were judged to be lost by our Lord and John. We cannot make these judgments based on any feelings about them. We cannot “discern” that they are lost. We must look at the evidence and judge them to be lost based on Biblical truth.

6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:6 NASB)

The Greek words for watch is ορατε or horate the finite, plural, Present tense, Imperative mood, and Active voice case of ὁράω or horaō, which means “to discern clearly.” What were the disciples to beware of? The answer is found in Matthew 16:12.

12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Matthew 16:12 NASB)

The Greek Word for teaching is διδαχή or didachē. It means instruction or doctrine. The disciples were warned by our Lord to beware of their doctrine. Their doctrine was the evidence that they were lost. Now I know that many believe the doctrine of the Pharisees to be correct, but their problem was their legalism. Those who say this often use this argument to call those who insist on correct Gospel doctrine Pharisees. However, our Lord’s words tell us that their problem was their doctrine not their legalism. They did not hold Orthodox doctrine. Instead, they held heterodox doctrine.

het·er·o·dox
-adjective
1. not in accordance with established or accepted doctrines or opinions, esp. in theology; unorthodox.
2. holding unorthodox doctrines or opinions.
[Origin: 1610–20; < Gk heteródoxos of another opinion, equiv. to hetero- hetero- + dóx(a) opinion (Compare dokeǐn to think, suppose) + -os adj. suffix]
—Related forms
het·er·o·dox·ly, adverb
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

The Pharisees held unorthodox or heterodox doctrine. Jesus also tells us that they worshiped God in vain.

8 ‘ This people honors ME with their lips, But their heart is far away from ME. 9 ‘ But in vain do they worship ME, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'” (Matthew 15:8-9 NASB)

These men did worship and appeared to be very worshipful. However, since they held false doctrines they were lost and, therefore, their worship was in vain. Their doctrine was not of the Sacred Scripture, but was the doctrines of men. They emphasized tradition over Biblical commandments. (Matthew 15:6) They did not abide in the doctrine of Christ. (2 John 9) Since their doctrines were of men instead of the Sacred Scripture, they made their judgements on their vain imaginations. If you have ever participated in some “theological discussions” with emergents or liberals then you will recognize that one.

20 So then, you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:20 NASB)

How can we know of what someone’s doctrine consists? Jesus said that we can know this by observing their fruit.

43 For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart. (Luke 6:43-45 NASB)

I know that many have not grasped this truth, but our Lord is always right and He says that the fruit is what a person’s mouth speaks because the mouth speaks what is in the heart. Therefore, we can know what the Pharisee’s doctrine consisted of by observing their spoken words from the Bible.

9 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: (Luke 18:9 NASB)

This passage introduced Jesus’ parable about the tax collector and the Pharisee praying in the temple. He spoke it directly to the Pharisees. The Pharisees relied on themselves for their righteousness. This is self-rightetousness or works-righteousness. They believed that their good works merited them God’s favor. Their doctrine or theology was one of “Do” instead one of trusting in what God has “Done.”

2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. (Romans 10:2-3 NASB)

This description by the Apostle Paul is of all self-righteous Jews, not just the Pharisees. It is also a description of all self-righteous professing Christians who are depending upon their own works to save them instead of trusting in what God has done for them. Zeal for religion based in the knowledge of false doctrine is nothing but an abomination to God. According to this passage we see what the missing piece is in all “Pharisee’s” doctrine. What is it? They are ignorant of the necessity of submitting to God’s righteousness nor do they know anything of grace. Where can we learn of God’s righteousness?

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “ But the righteous man shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:16-17 NASB)

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26 NASB)

People who are ignorant of God’s righteousness cannot submit to it. Therefore, they go about establishing a righteousness of their own. This is why we stress the Sovereignty of God so much here. This why I try to end each piece I write with either “SDG” or “Soli Deo Gloria.” This is why we must come to terms with God’s righteousness if we are ever going to grow in Christlikeness and become Spirit-filled. Only those who walk by faith are obedient in their submission to God’s righteousness for every deed done in the flesh is sin.

This is also why we must learn proper doctrine such as Salvation is by Grace through Faith. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. Through this we learn that the righteousness which saves us is imputed to us. It is Christ’s righteousness, not our own. If we take this to heart we will not view our salvation as a correct decision, but instead, we see it for the miracle it is. This changes everything in how we serve Him. How can we be self-righteous if our salvation was entirely by Grace?

As many of you know, I grew up as a Southern Baptist. I was a Deacon in two SBC churches, one in Oklahoma and the other in Kansas. I was a Bible teacher as well. In 2004-2005 I underwent a theology overhaul by God. The end result of that was that my theology become subject to the Sovereignty of God. I finally came to understand that salvation is God’s work from beginning to end. Through this understanding I looked back at all those years in the SBC and it made me weep. Why? Much of the SBC culture is one of “Do” instead of being built around what God has “Done.” The emphasis is on “a changed life” instead of the Sovereignty of God.

I remember the countless Deacon meetings where it seemed that all we ever did was to strategize how to get the pew sitters busy. The evidence of salvation we looked for in people was how busy they were because of how God had impacted their lives. Of course, now I know that regeneration makes Christians New Creations who have a faith that is alive. This enables them to not sin if they walk by this faith. Instead of looking for this “change” we looked for how religious people were.

Phariseeism is the Religion of Do or Works-Righteousness. Christians in bondage to this will view their salvation in the context of a decision. They will attempt to live this out by being as religious as possible. Of course, unless they are regenerate and have the Holy Spirit, they will eventually stumble. Some will remain religious of course, but without the supernatural power of a regenerate heart, saving faith, and The Holy Spirit they will find their own righteousness instead of possessing Christ’s Righteousness. This is confusing sanctification with justification. Justification is a declaration by God of not-guilty on our behalf. Sanctification is the process whereby Christians are conformed unto the image of Christ as they abide in Christ. Those in the Religion of Works-Righteousness attempt to sanctify themselves by being religious. They believe their “works” merit them favor from God. It is no different than what the Pharisees did in Christ’s day.

Undoubtedly there are some genuine Christians enslaved to the Religion of Works-Righteousness. I was one. I pray that God will draw them out of it into the light. We must not condemn, but pray for and share the truth with them. It is not being Pharisaical to tell the truth.

Soli Deo Gloria!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: lent; sacrifice; works
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To: LearsFool
Satan didn't like the answer it is written either.
101 posted on 02/21/2015 12:07:59 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: LearsFool; boatbums; trebb; RnMomof7
>>Sorry, I forgot to ping the other people you wanted to hear your answer to the question.<<

Then I'll repeat the answer.

Satan didn't like the answer it is written either.

And I'll add to it.

Satan was trying to set a trap also.

102 posted on 02/21/2015 12:10:12 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear; boatbums; trebb; RnMomof7

Oh, I don’t think anybody here minds quotations from the Scriptures. Surely you don’t mind that I quoted what James wrote, even if it corrects your misunderstanding of the role of works in salvation, do you? After all, that’s what Jesus did to point out the error in Satan’s twisting of Scripture.

Btw, you forgot to “repeat” your answer. I put “repeat” in quotes because you never answered it. Will you answer it? Or do we need to hunt up a Sunday School kid to help you?


103 posted on 02/21/2015 12:24:02 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; boatbums; trebb; RnMomof7
>>Surely you don’t mind that I quoted what James wrote, even if it corrects your misunderstanding of the role of works in salvation, do you?<<

Directly from the Greek word for word.

James 2:21 Abraham the father of us not by works was justified having offered Isaac the son of him upon the alter

James 2:22 You see that his faith was working with the works of him and by his works his faith was accomplished.

His works were only the end result of his faith which saved him.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Abraham was counted as righteous before he ever did anything. His actions only followed his saving faith.

104 posted on 02/21/2015 12:45:45 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear; boatbums; trebb; RnMomof7
Abraham was counted as righteous before he ever did anything.

Nope. Hebrews 11:8 says otherwise: "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed"

Still no answer to my question? Well, that's okay, because you've still come to see what the role of works is.

You have to answer "No", because you can't help but admit that without the marching, the walls wouldn't have fallen.

Nor can you help but admit that without the dipping in the Jordan, Naaman would've remained a leper.

Nor can you help but admit that without the building of the ark, Noah and his family would've drowned in the flood.

When God issues a command, faith works, and God gives the promised reward. So you understand that for all of these (Abraham, Noah, etc.), "by their works their faith was accomplished", and the promise God wished to give them was achieved by "their faith working with their works."

"And the scripture was fulfilled", and so Abraham's faith was the justifying kind.

But some people don't want to work when God issues a command, so they don't get the promised reward. It's not that they're lazy. It's just that they don't have faith.

So the question for you (no, you don't have to answer this one to anyone but God) is whether you'll do the work God has commanded to "accomplish your faith" and make it the kind that saves. Will your faith be fruitful or barren? Alive or dead? Like the disciple's or like the devils'?
105 posted on 02/21/2015 1:31:36 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Zuriel

“you think that when the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius and his household, Peter didn’t realize that it was from God”

And what does that tell you? Cornelius and his household received and manifested Holy Spirit “which IS the Baptism’ before Peter performed his water ritual. That ties in to Peter’s realization of Holy Spirit Baptism later in in Acts 11:16, which is consistent with what the Lord says in Act 1:5 and the source of Peter’s realization:

Act 1:5 -

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

The new administration of grace brought on the new baptism in Christ. And what the Lord said here is certainly consistent with what John the Baptist said himself:

Luke 3:16 -

“John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire”

Note there’s no mention and inclusion of water.

“you’ve just declared Acts 2:38 to not be from heaven, but of men. And you seem to have dismissed these as well”

The passage really makes no mention of water. Still, you keep sidestepping Peter’s realization of true baptism that came later in Acts 11:16.

“Furthermore, with your interpretation, Peter should have gotten a hold of Philip, and told him to quit performing anymore water baptisms. He failed to stop Paul from baptizing everywhere he went.”

Peter was performing the works that God laid out for him and following God’s path. Apparently God did not assign him the responsibility to go chasing down and correcting other apostles in that regard.

“1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain,.... 20 “...eight souls were saved by water.”

Here Peter is actually refuting the need for water for salvation, and the passage read correctly with it’s reference to water is actually showing that it’s NOT water that saves.

“not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”


106 posted on 02/21/2015 2:36:45 PM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: LearsFool; CynicalBear; RnMomof7; Zuriel
I notice you didn't answer the two questions I put to you. Why is that? They're multiple choice, so all you need to do is give the letters. It only takes a couple of keystrokes. :-)

Oh, but I DID answer your questions. If you want a "simple" letter answer, then perhaps you need to pose better questions.

Yes, I've seen people cite the "not of works" Scriptures to try and prove that God expects only faith. The trouble is a confusion as to what "works" means in the various places the Bible writers used the term. Since Abraham was justified by faith after working, James concludes that his works made his faith perfect.

People cite Scriptures because they are the final answers of God to the questions we have. I've seen the Roman Catholic hedge of presuming the "works" Paul is talking about that don't justify are works of the law of Moses and not the other kind of works Catholics list that are outside of the Mosaic law. However, what they fail to acknowledge is that Paul DOES speak about ALL works of righteousness which we do - whether of the law or not. He says:

    But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. (Titus 3:4-8)

I would remind you also that Paul EVEN addresses the case of a person who does not do good works and says that it is STILL by faith that we are justified:

    What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

      “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”


    Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. (Romans 4:1-13)

Abraham was NOT justified by faith after working, that is a mischaracterization of what Scripture says and is disproved by the passage cited above, as well as others. When James refers to Abraham's faith being "perfected", he is talking about completeness, not the quality of his faith as if his faith was imperfect. Paul says so.

Does James' understanding of works conflict with Paul's? No, Paul is speaking of different sort of works in many passages. And so are you when you say, "We are saved by grace through faith apart from our works."

Of course James doesn't conflict with Paul, it's the SAME Holy Spirit carrying them along as they wrote. I think it is your own misunderstanding, and those who join with you in your insistence of works added to faith being what justifies and the false dichotomy of works of the law vs. works of righteousness. Instead, James is addressing how others see our faith in action. Does God NEED to see our works in order to accept our faith for salvation? No. To presume He does is blasphemy as it assumes God is not omniscient - all knowing.

What I'm trying to get you to focus on is the role works play in faith. It's not that they "contribute to our justification", as you put it. It's that they make our faith a justifying faith.

What I'm trying to get you to focus on is that our works play NO role in our justification before God. They are evidence to others as well as ourselves of the caliber of the faith we profess and they are the way through which God blesses us in this life and how we witness to a fallen world of the power of faith. Scripture says Abraham received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised and that is the place of the rite of water baptism today. Neither circumcision nor water baptism are of themselves the cause of justification but a "sign" and a "seal" of genuine faith and an outward testimony of what we have entrusted to Christ.

It's impossible to separate this sort of faith from works. Read James 2 again. To say that this faith exists separate from works is an error. The only faith that exists separate from works is the dead faith such as the devils have. Is that what you have? Or do you have a working faith?

Who is trying to separate genuine faith from the resulting acts of faith? Do demons have the ability to have justifying faith? NO. Jesus didn't die for demons, but for humanity. Do demons believe Jesus is God incarnate? Yes, because that is true whether they like it or not.

All we're trying to do here is show how there is NOTHING we do that can justify us before God, ONLY the blood of Christ takes away our sins. We receive God's gift by faith and He saves us not because of our works of righteousness but because of His mercy. Remember:

    But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

107 posted on 02/21/2015 2:59:52 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Basing an entire belief or dogma on one single verse causes them all types of error doesn’t it.


108 posted on 02/21/2015 3:13:44 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

sure does!


109 posted on 02/21/2015 3:50:43 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; CynicalBear; RnMomof7; Zuriel
Oh, but I DID answer your questions. If you want a "simple" letter answer, then perhaps you need to pose better questions.

Questions, questions. People want "better questions", but they don't want to answer them.

Well, fine, we'll see if these are "better" enough to please you:

What causes sins to be forgiven?
A. Faith
B. God's grace
C. Jesus' sacrifice
D. Baptism
E. Confession of Christ
F. All of the above

Which is unnecessary for sins to be forgiven?
A. Faith
B. God's grace
C. Jesus' sacrifice
D. Baptism
E. Confession of Christ
F. None of the above

110 posted on 02/21/2015 3:57:35 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: CynicalBear

Yes, especially when you make a mistake like thinking a word (”works”, for instance) always means the same thing.

(I notice there’s ONE word you don’t make that mistake with. That word means whatever you want it to mean.)


111 posted on 02/21/2015 4:02:07 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; boatbums; RnMomof7; Zuriel
It is written “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
112 posted on 02/21/2015 4:10:31 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
It is written "Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith." James 2:24

So you see, either Paul is wrong, or James is wrong, or you're wrong in assuming that "works = works" everywhere the word is found in the Bible.
113 posted on 02/21/2015 4:16:07 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; boatbums; RnMomof7; Zuriel
>>So you see, either Paul is wrong, or James is wrong,<<

Nope, neither is wrong. It's your understanding of what James is saying. And I do believe boatbums already explained it to you so I'll not deal with you any longer on it.

114 posted on 02/21/2015 4:57:18 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
Nope, neither is wrong.

That's true, neither Paul nor James is wrong. They're simply using "works" in different ways. Once you admit that, you'll be able to learn from them.
115 posted on 02/21/2015 5:03:26 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; CynicalBear
Nope, not any better! Preloaded to get the gotcha answer is no way to ask questions honestly. I don't know why you continue to play this game. If you want to believe that your actions added to your faith are what saves you, go ahead and trust in that. You will have to ask, though, in what are you trusting to save you? Your works or Jesus' work?

It's either grace OR works, not both. If it is by grace, then it's not by works because grace wouldn't BE grace. And if it is by works, then it is not by grace because works wouldn't BE works. See Romans 11:6.

116 posted on 02/21/2015 6:07:21 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; LearsFool

Interesting how it always comes down to the fact they have to make a choice.


117 posted on 02/21/2015 6:13:43 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: boatbums
The answer to both questions is F. But I'll bet you knew that already. Why you dodge that is another question altogether.

In God's mercy, He accepted the Son's sacrifice on our behalf. Is that all there is to it? (Ak! Another question! But rather than wait for an answer, I'll press on.)

No, that's not all there is to it. Did the ark save everyone from the flood? Or only those with faith? Why, only those with faith, of course. Likewise, God tells us we must either turn to Him in faith or else be lost.

Noah preached for 100 years and could only find 7 people with enough faith to join him on the ark. Did their faith save them? Yes. Did the ark save them? Yes. Did God save them? Yes. Did water save them? Yes. Did their getting in the ark save them? Yes.

The false teacher who wrote the OP's article would eliminate some of the things which saved Noah and his family. If he had been around back then, he wouldn't have gotten into the ark, let alone help build it. He doesn't have enough faith in God. Instead, he'd have spent his time trying to dissuade Noah's family from getting into the ark.

Those who likewise persist in propagating this false "faith-only" gospel are just like him. Not only do they not understand how faith works in baptism to receive God's grace, they lack the faith to simply do whatever God commands. Instead, they come up with elaborate explanations for NOT doing what God says. And not only do they lack faith, like the pied piper they lead others down the same road to perdition.

"For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." - II Timothy 3:6-7

Whether their false teaching springs from a zeal and vehemence against the false religion of Catholicism, or whether it has some other originating source, is beside the point. They preach a false gospel, and spew lying promises of salvation.

If you've fallen prey to their seductive lies, I hope you'll turn back to the Scriptures of God and seek out the truth.
118 posted on 02/21/2015 6:53:25 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: CynicalBear

Oh you don’t seem to mind making a choice. It’s having the disguise stripped away from you choice by a plain question that seems to bother you.

Your choice is: “Joshua and the Israelites didn’t really need to march around Jericho.”

Your choice is: “Noah didn’t really need to build an ark.”

Your choice is: “Naaman didn’t really need to dip in the Jordan.”

Your choice is: “The Israelites didn’t really need to put the blood on the doorpost.”

Your choice is: “People don’t really need to have their sins washed away.”

What would’ve happened to all those people if they had listened to you instead of God? What will happen to someone today if he listens to you instead of God?


119 posted on 02/21/2015 7:12:36 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool

Do Catholics know nothing other than twisting words and accusing people of saying something they didn’t? I’ll leave you in your delusion.


120 posted on 02/21/2015 7:27:01 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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