Posted on 02/18/2015 3:24:56 PM PST by NYer
You wouldnt think that anyone would fight about Ash Wednesday and Lent. For Catholics its part of what we do. For others its something they can use or not as they find it helpful, and increasing numbers do. Down-the-line Evangelical churches have started to hold special services for Ash Wednesday complete with ashes and to treat the Sundays after it as Sundays in Lent. Rather severely anti-sacramental Evangelicals now speak of giving things up and fasting on Fridays.
I find this cheering, but my friend Carl Trueman doesnt. Carl teaches Church history at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, the flagship of serious Reformed (i.e., Calvinist) Christianity in America. Hes a pastor in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. If youre thinking of the somewhat wooly-minded, generically Protestant Presbyterians in the church in middle of town, youre not thinking of Carls kind of Presbyterian. The mainline Presbyterians are the ones in tweed and corduroy; Carls type are in biker leathers. Hes one John Calvin would have recognized as a brother.
Writing on Reformation21, the website of the Alliance for Confessing Evangelicals, Carl notes that Evangelicals have started observing the season and then lets loose:
He is clearly not pleased and I can see why. The adoption by Evangelicals of some Catholic practices cheers me, however, because it is a gain for them, an expansion of their ways of living their faith, and one that reduces the gap between divided Christians. And, to be honest, because it opens a way for them to understand what the Catholic Church is about.
Carl is right that theyve picked pieces they like without enough thought about the thing from which theyre picking pieces, but as a Catholic I think thats a blessing rather than a mistake. He wants them to be more consistent and coherent Protestants and I would like them to be Catholics, and movement from one to the other requires some inconsistency and incoherence, the way a man wanders back and forth in the forest trying to find his way until he sees in the distance the place he is looking for.
The Church offers riches like an over-loaded wagon in a fairy tale, spilling gold coins every time it hits a pothole. Evangelicals can find in Catholic practice many things they can use just by walking along behind it. Though they have in their own tradition ways to express penance and forgiveness, as Carl notes, Ash Wednesday the whole rite, not just the imposition of ashes offers them a more dramatic way of hearing the truth and enacting it.
The question for them is how much they can take and adapt to their own purposes without having to face the claims of the Church from which theyre taking the things they like. I think rather a long way, because the Church draws upon a wisdom that it is not exclusively Catholic. You can enjoy the imposition of ashes without asking Who is Peter?
But there should come a point where you ask, What is this thing from whom Im always taking? What makes it a thing from which I can take so much? As Carl says, more pointedly: If your own tradition lacks the historical, liturgical and theological depth for which you are looking, it may be time to join a church which can provide the same.
Hey Gamecock...even the thread to your link was interesting...thanks.
No worship, Dan Brown.
Scared of death and dead bodies? I’m not.
Obviously, Protestants are afraid and repulsed by death, dead bodies, skeletons and God knows what else. Since Catholics came through the Black Death, perhaps they are inured to the horrors of dead bodies. Certainly, I’m not afraid of them and certainly believe this is a very beautiful and deep ritual.
I still can’t figure out why anyone would see this ritual as beautiful except they’ve been so conditioned to body parts and death and copses that ashes would just be one more thing to give the priest a purpose for being a Priest.
If they ever saw the truth the priesthood ceased altogether there would be no catholic church.
Because our religion is ancient and has lived through tumultuous times - like I said, the Black Death and numerous plagues.
Death is a part of life and you need to get used to it - because like me, you’ll one day be wormwood.
Jeffrey Dalmer had no problems with body parts either as other derranged individuals like him. We call them "sick headed"....but attach catholicism to the same practices and suddenly it's holy.
Baloney..its sacrilegious in every way to rob graves...and ship body parts acroos the nation and world for public worship and display.
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Obviously, Protestants are repulsed by overt paganism.
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Freeper Protestants are repulsed by death.
I'll agree your church pratices ancient pagan ways and rituals...and most of them creep the average person out for their cultish and idolatrist dsplays such as these
These are very beautiful. I don’t know the history of this - an ossuary, obviously - perhaps there was no room for burial. Quite common if they died during plague years. As I said, they are grotesque and wonderful.
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>> “Because our religion is ancient...” <<
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Pagan sun god worship?
Yes, over 4000 years old, and still unchanged!
The 40 days of Tammuz, the four points of the sun god cross on your heart, Easter/mary worship, and the burning of the new born babies on December 25, all still perfectly maintained.
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Pure nonsense.
Paganism is vile, and that is the total of catholic ‘worship.’
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No matter how one presents the truth they remain bound under their own self-denial and the tentacles of Romes catholicism...which seeks to keep them bound from the truth.
No, Protestants are against veneration/worship of the dead like the pagans do.
Catholics do not dig up corpses. They do take relics from bodies, it’s true, and if they can’t fit bodies into cemeteries, they create ossuaries and decorate the dead out of respect and a sense of beauty.
Let me turn your faces purple by the relic I saw in an Italian church of a saint’s tongue. This is very medieval. An outcome of the terrible deaths inflicted upon Europe. I only wish we had a relic of dear St. Joan but we don’t. I would bid a thousand dollars for a tiny sliver of her bones. I have a sliver of St. Gerard who I am named after.
I concur except that the idea of a Purgatory being unmentionable pain and suffering is definitely out. More like getting acclimated.
As a poster on Catholic Answers sums up his faith, if not that of all RCs,
I feel when my numbers up I will appoach a large table and St.Peter will be there with an enormous scale of justice by his side. We will see our life in a movie...the things that we did for the benefit of others will be for the plus side of the scale..the other stuff,,not so good will..well, be on the negative side..and so its a very interesting job Pete has. I wonder if he pushes a button for the elevator down for the losers...and what .sideways for those heading for purgatory..the half way house....lets wait and see.... http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4098202&postcount=2
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Art is humanism, the worship of the creature. Pagan top to bottom.
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