Posted on 02/09/2015 12:47:13 PM PST by RnMomof7
Prove that what the apostles taught as “tradition” is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches as “tradition”. Give documentation please.
And still you use Sola Scriptura for Catholic Church authority. What's up with that?
Did you not read this?
Where is Sola Scriptura in Scripture? I like this one:
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”—Isaiah 8
Revelation 1:9-11 I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying,
“Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
Revelation 1:17-19 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying,
“Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this.
Revelation 2:1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
Revelation 2:12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
Revelation 2:18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
Revelation 3:1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write:
Revelation 3:7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
OK, if you want to use the specious red letter hermeneutic, the same place God told the many prophets and psalmist to write the many prophecies and psalms that the Lord invoked in substantiating His claims.
And the same place He said for the church to write down oral tradition and encyclicals.
But at least as regards the Scriptures, your argument means that you deny that the Holy Spirit was told by Christ to indeed write the Scriptures, and which your argument renders superflous.
Where did Christ tell anyone that His Religion would be based on a book?
By substantiating His Truth claims upon Scriptural substantiation in word and power, for the Word of God/the Lord was usually written, and as written it became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing/establishing Truth claims, as is abundantly evidenced , including oral preaching.
Thus the Lord did not make oral tradition the standard, but, "beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself,...And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written , and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:..." (Luke 24:44-46) (Luke 24:27)
Oral preaching has its place, including that of enjoining obedience to what is preached, but all such preaching is subject to testing by the established wholly inspired supremely powerful word of God existing in a testable, objective form, which the Scriptures unique are, and Rome's "infallible" decrees are not.
And thus the question is where did Christ tell anyone that His Religion would be based on the premise of perpetual magisterial infallibility, a novelty never seen nor necessary in Scripture in order to discern Truth from error and preserve Faith.
where to begin....her diatribe kind of suggests that the study of the history of Christianity began sometime last week....I’m certain that there were historians writing stuff down from day 1. History is an ongoing study wherever possibly...even the cavemen left evidence of who they were and what they did, ate, wore. Christianity, primarily Catholicism, has a recorded, written, pictorial, archectural history which is very well preserved and can hardly be disputed....
I am a former catholic. The priests and nuns in the catholic schools I went to, always told us the mass was the unbloody sacrifice of the cross. Maybe they were wrong when they told us that.
By the way, welcome to FR. Go Blackhawks. Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013, and if we are lucky, in 2015 too.
:-)
Both people???
Just because you don't obey the speed limit doesn't mean that it no longer exists...it does.
You cannot blame them for no subscribing to the metaphysical "with God there is no time" polemic, which is problematically used in the light of such RC statements as,
The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating...Indeed, it is equal to that of Jesus Christ...When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man...Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary [who is said to be all but almighty herself]...The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command. - (John A. O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., The Faith of Millions, 255-256 , O'Brien. Nihtt obstat: Rev. Lawrence Gollner, Censor Librorum Imprimatur: Leo A. Pursley, Bishop of Fort Wayne,-South Bend, March 16, 1974
1265. What is the Sacrifice of the Mass?...Christ, the eternal High Priest, in an unbloody way offers himself a most acceptable Victim to the eternal Father, as he did upon the Cross.
1269. How does the Mass re-present Calvary? The Mass re-presents Calvary by continuing Christ’s sacrifice of himself to his heavenly Father. In the Mass, no less than on Calvary, Jesus really offers his life to his heavenly Father.
1277. Does the Mass detract from the one, unique Sacrifice of the Cross? The Catechism of the Council of Trent: The Mass in no way detracts from the one, unique Sacrifice of the Cross because the Mass is the same Sacrifice as that of the Cross, to continue on earth until the end of time...The Mass, therefore, no less than the Cross, is expiatory for sins; but now the expiation is experienced by those for whom, on the Cross, the title of God’s mercy had been gained. - The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism by Fr John Hardon
And forasmuch as, in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the mass, that same Christ is contained and immolated in an unbloody manner, who once offered Himself in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross; the holy Synod teaches, that this sacrifice is truly propritiatory...For the victim is one and the same, the same now offering by the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner alone of offering being different. - Trent The Twenty-Second Session, cp. 2; http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct22.html
We, therefore, confess that the sacrifice of the Mass is one and the same sacrifice with that of the cross...That the holy sacrifice of the Mass, therefore, is not only a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving, or a commemoration of the sacrifice of the cross; but also a sacrifice of propitiation, by which God is appeased and rendered propitious.. (The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Published by Command of Pope Pius the Fifth (New York: Christian Press, 1905), pp. 173-175).
CCC 1364 As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."
CCC, second edition 1367: The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."
Wow, pretty impressive post!!!! and ALL from the Bible that the Catholic church compiled and saved for you....pretty impressive I'd say!!!
From Jesus, declaring to the Adversary:
ο δε αποκριθεις ειπεν γεγραπται ουκ επ αρτω μονω ζησεται
ανθρωπος αλλ επι παντι ρηματι εκπορευομενω δια στοματος θεου
(Mt. 4:4, as written in the characters of the plenarily inspired, inerrant, infallible, preserved Koine Greek language.) Which translated is (uninspired but accurate):
But He responded and stated, "It stands written.
'Man does not intrinically live upon a breadloaf only, but upon every utterance proceeding through God's mouth.' "
(A literal rendering into English, a nested quotation.)
And, of course. it is the prophet who says, "Thus sayeth The Lord" as Jesus as a prophet did to Satan, and Levi copied down the inspired words.
Jesus validated the authority of Holy Scripture found written in Deut. 8:3 by Moses: Deu 8:3 "And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live."
It’s stunning what Catholics don’t really know what their church teaches. Good job!
well there is that quote something like what you shall bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven and what you shall loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven
You can’t use that. That’s Sola Scriptura unless you have some other authority.
intrinsically
“So just post the Chapter and verse that supports Sola Scriptura an I will go away”
Dear chap, I’ve no wish that you would ever go away.
I do wish salvation for you. I do wish everyone that claims the name of Christ would “study to show yourself approved by God, rightly handling the Word of Truth.”
Just check your post account. The answer is there - multiple times.
“Cite the chapter and verse where Christ told anyone to write anything down “
Ah, another question.
In this case, your question assumes a presupposition and that makes it a logical fallacy.
I will give you a clue...
Yes, it was a member of the Trinity, but not the one you name.
History is written by those who eliminated their competition, sort of like the Cosa Nostra.
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