Posted on 02/08/2015 5:56:52 AM PST by infool7
Doesn't matter...you "looking at the greek" is as useful as a native russian speaker "looking at the english" and concluding a butterfly as something to do with dairy products.
Likewise. We are admonished to avoid foolish arguments. I really do like to focus on His saving grace and love.
You can refuse to look at the proof you are wrong, but it won’t make you any less wrong.
The article doesn't mention money. And where, pray tell, are the American dioceses hiding all their "profits"? Perhaps if a few bishops were sent to business school to prepare them for their collateral duties, there wouldn't be such a plethora of church closures and diocesan bankruptcies. Many of them behave as though they think that money grows on trees.
Ok Ill bite
How exactly it is important I not forget that the Church is Christ’s Body if I believe Christ provided salvation.
And what exactly do you mean when you say the “Church is Christ Body”.
Thanks for the compliment I can't recall the last time I was accused of being an intellectual ;)
Okie dokie, if you say so.
I believe you have read far more into my comment than I wrote into it, hence my "I wonder why that is" statement.
I made the general statement of an observer that could be applied to anyone of either denomination in y'all's war, but you're the one who rose to take a bite of the apple.
Like I said, I wonder why that is...I dunno. I'd just be guessing.
Good luck stormin' the castle!
Surely you aren’t that naive.
And what proof would that be?
“The article doesn’t mention money.”
It mentions power, influence and money. It calls it an Exclusive Franchise to Eternal Life - by saying: “No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church”.
I’m not the one refusing to look at the proof or the truth.
The Greek says what it says.
Christ is the petra/Rock.
We are saved by GOD's Grace to mankind by the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It takes an act of will & heart to accomplish this. It takes the conscious asking and willingness to receive Jesus Christ.
The Temples man had built had become corrupted and destroyed many times over. The leaders were placing conditions, rules, laws, taxes, and burdens man could not accomplish. GOD saw this. GOD had Mercy. GOD sent Jesus to reconcile Himself to Man so man could have fellowship with Him through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is everywhere but most important He must be invited into The Temple. The Temple not of earthly materials but rather being are within our hearts.
If you sin against brother Joe ask brother Joe for forgiveness. If Brother Joe offended you forgive Brother Joe. If you sinned by disobedience to GOD's commandments then ask GOD to forgive you in Jesus name. Jesus Christ is THE PRIEST Ordained of GOD. Go to a place alone. Not with father Harry and confess your sins to GOD in secret and pray in secret your thanks and needs.
If you sin against the church by deception, theft, causing dissent through Gossip, etc then YES you should confess that sin to the church.
Jesus sent The Holy Spirit whom dwells within us. The Holy Spirit hears our pleas of our spirit being even ones we aren't conscious of and Jesus knows them. We don't have to have an intercessor standing between us and Jesus. All we must do is ask the Father in His name. This broke the spiritual enslavement the Temple Priest had on the Jews and Christ rebuked several times. Why do some insist upon reestablishing that same order?
That is not to say believers can't and shouldn't meet and worship together. They should and they should encourage one another. Look at the early churches. They were basically an observance of The Lords Supper at appointed times, a sermon, and songs. It was simple.
GOD's Revelation given to Peter is the new church one not founded upon mans buildings and earthly material but rather GOD's promise of fulfillment of sending Jesus Christ as The Savior. Salvation can come at anytime meaning Christ calling and the Holy Spirits conviction of sin placed upon ones heart can come at any time any where. Yes it can be in church. It can be a hunter in the woods or a man fishing on the lake. How many Disciples did Christ call who were inside The Temple? Matthew was a tax collector. Peter, Andrew, John & James were fishing. Christ came to them and said Follow Me. Within us He will do no less. How we answer that call and our relationship with Christ is what determines our eternal state not the churches earthly hierarchy.
Agreement is a good thing if it is based on fact.
Do you agree that Christ and the Disciples were all Jewish?
“How exactly it is important I not forget that the Church is Christ’s Body if I believe Christ provided salvation.”
You cannot separate them.
“And what exactly do you mean when you say the “Church is Christ Body”.”
What do you think I mean?
What do you think I mean?
Not sure what you mean, hence my question.
Excellent......
This would exclude any praying to Mary and certainly the priests or the pope being the mediator between man and God. Teaching this is direct error. That is only the tip of the iceberg. Teaching that the communion becomes the literal body of Christ in some form or fashion is also direct error. Teaching that the Pope is infallible is direct error. Teaching that leaders of the church should be celibate is direct error.
You are, of course, entitled to believe as you wish and even say so since we are not under Sharia law...yet.
“Not sure what you mean, hence my question.”
The Church is communion with Jesus
787 From the beginning, Jesus associated his disciples with his own life, revealed the mystery of the Kingdom to them, and gave them a share in his mission, joy, and sufferings.215 Jesus spoke of a still more intimate communion between him and those who would follow him: “Abide in me, and I in you. . . . I am the vine, you are the branches.”216 And he proclaimed a mysterious and real communion between his own body and ours: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”217
788 When his visible presence was taken from them, Jesus did not leave his disciples orphans. He promised to remain with them until the end of time; he sent them his Spirit.218 As a result communion with Jesus has become, in a way, more intense: “By communicating his Spirit, Christ mystically constitutes as his body those brothers of his who are called together from every nation.”219
789 The comparison of the Church with the body casts light on the intimate bond between Christ and his Church. Not only is she gathered around him; she is united in him, in his body. Three aspects of the Church as the Body of Christ are to be more specifically noted: the unity of all her members with each other as a result of their union with Christ; Christ as head of the Body; and the Church as bride of Christ.
“One Body”
790 Believers who respond to God’s word and become members of Christ’s Body, become intimately united with him: “In that body the life of Christ is communicated to those who believe, and who, through the sacraments, are united in a hidden and real way to Christ in his Passion and glorification.”220 This is especially true of Baptism, which unites us to Christ’s death and Resurrection, and the Eucharist, by which “really sharing in the body of the Lord, . . . we are taken up into communion with him and with one another.”221
791 The body’s unity does not do away with the diversity of its members: “In the building up of Christ’s Body there is engaged a diversity of members and functions. There is only one Spirit who, according to his own richness and the needs of the ministries, gives his different gifts for the welfare of the Church.”222 The unity of the Mystical Body produces and stimulates charity among the faithful: “From this it follows that if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with him, and if one member is honored, all the members together rejoice.”223 Finally, the unity of the Mystical Body triumphs over all human divisions: “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”224
“Christ is the Head of this Body”
792 Christ “is the head of the body, the Church.”225 He is the principle of creation and redemption. Raised to the Father’s glory, “in everything he [is] preeminent,”226 especially in the Church, through whom he extends his reign over all things.
793 Christ unites us with his Passover: all his members must strive to resemble him, “until Christ be formed” in them.227 “For this reason we . . . are taken up into the mysteries of his life, . . . associated with his sufferings as the body with its head, suffering with him, that with him we may be glorified.”228
794 Christ provides for our growth: to make us grow toward him, our head,229 he provides in his Body, the Church, the gifts and assistance by which we help one another along the way of salvation.
795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the “whole Christ” (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:
Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God’s grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does “head and members” mean? Christ and the Church.230
Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.231
Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.232
A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: “About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter.”233
The Church is the Bride of Christ
796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist.234 The Lord referred to himself as the “bridegroom.”235 The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.236 The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb.237 “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her.”238 He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:239
This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.”240 And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.”241 They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride.”242
215 Cf. Mk 1:16-20; 3:13-19; Mt 13:10-17; Lk 10:17-20; 22:28-30.
216 Jn 15:4-5.
217 Jn 6:56.
218 Cf. Jn 14:18; 20:22; Mt 28:20; Acts 2:33.
219 LG 7.
220 LG 7.
221 LG 7; cf. Rom 6:4-5; 1 Cor 12:13.
222 LG 7 § 3.
223 LG 7 § 3; cf. 1 Cor 12:26.
224 Gal 3:27-28.
225 Col 1:18.
226 Col 1:18.
227 Gal 4:19.
228 LG 7 § 4; cf. Phil 3:21; Rom 8:17.
229 Cf. Col 2:19; Eph 4:11-16.
230 St. Augustine, In Jo. ev. 21,8:PL 35,1568.
231 Pope St. Gregory the Great, Moralia in Job, præf.,14:PL 75,525A.
232 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh III,48,2.
233 Acts of the Trial of Joan of Arc.
234 Jn 3:29.
235 Mk 2:19.
236 Cf. Mt 22:1-14; 25:1-13; 1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:2.
237 Cf. Rev 22:17; Eph 1:4; 5:27.
238 Eph 5:25-26.
239 Cf. Eph 5:29.
240 Eph 5:31-32.
241 Mt 19:6.
242 St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 74:4:PL 36,948-949.
My Catholic Faith
74. One Body in Christ: Communion of Saints
Why is the Catholic Church called the Mystical Body of Christ? —The Catholic Church is called the Mystical Body of Christ, because its members are united by supernatural bonds with one another and with Christ, their Head, thus resembling the members and head of the living human body.
The term “Mystical Body of Christ” is derived from St. Paul’s metaphor: “He is the head of his body, the Church” (Col. 1:18) . Again: “You are the body of Christ, member for member” (1 Cor. 12:27). “We, the many, are one body in Christ” (Rom. 12:5).
Jesus Himself used a similar symbol: “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for without me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he shall be cast outside as the branch and wither” (John 15:5-6).
In the Mystical Body, Christ as Head wills to be helped by His Body. Thus He rules the Church, but does so indirectly, through the hierarchy, human authority.
In a similar manner the human head, to live, has need of the rest of the body. The hierarchy is the material on which is formed the Image of Christ, God. The acts, ceremonies, ritual, liturgy of the Church,-all these are outward signs of the inward reality of the union of the members with one another and with their Head, Christ; they are visible manifestations of a common supernatural life in the Godhead.
Among the members of the Mystical Body of Christ there exists an interdependence; so that although each one has his own individual function, yet he does not live for himself alone, but for the entire Body. Every good he does perfects the Body, of which he is a part.
Similarly, the eye, or the foot, or the arm of a man is useless existing alone and apart from the rest of his body. Here is an example of the interdependence among members of the Church: Suppose a Catholic prays to recover from a grievous illness, and he does not recover; there is no evident answer to his prayers. Yet, do they go to waste? God lets no good work “go to waste”; the merits of the prayers are not lost for the Mystical Body.
Because of the interdependence among the members, and between members and Head, of the Mystical Body, there follows a continuous contribution and distribution of merits and graces, profiting all towards eternal life. This supernatural fellowship, this mystical union and interdependence, is presented to us in the Apostles’ Creed in the doctrine of the Communion of Saints.
What is meant by “the Communion of Saints” in the Apostles’ Creed? —By “the Communion of Saints” is meant the union of the faithful on earth, the blessed in heaven, and the souls in purgatory, with Christ as their Head.
There is only one Mystical Body, only one Church. But this Church has three aspects: the Church Triumphant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Militant.
The saints and angels in heaven compose the Church triumphant, because they have gained the crown of victory. The souls in purgatory compose the Church suffering, because they still have to expiate for their sins before they can enter heaven. The faithful on earth compose the Church militant, because they have to struggle ceaselessly against the enemies of their souls.
The Church triumphant, the Church suffering and the Church militant compose one Church united in Christ, members of a body whose head is Christ: “So we, the many, are one body in Christ, but severally members one of another’ (Rom. 12:5).
All the members of the Church are of one family, and share in the spiritual treasures of the Church. However, not all members of the Church Militant fully enjoy the benefits of the communion of saints, but only those in a state of grace.
“Dead members” do not lose all the benefits of the communion of saints, for the Church prays publicly for them, and particular members in the state of grace often send up petitions for them. Thus they may receive the grace to repent and recover sanctifying grace. Hence a Catholic who still belongs to the Church, although a great sinner, may have more hope of being converted than one who cuts himself off from the Church.
How do the members of the Communion of Saints help one another? —The members of the Communion of Saints help one another by prayer and intercession, and by the merits of their good works.
The faithful on earth can help one another by practicing supernatural charity and, especially, by performing the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.
St. Peter was freed from prison by the prayers of the faithful. St. Stephen’s prayer obtained the conversion of St. Paul. The prayers of St. Monica led to the conversion of her son, St. Augustine. This is why today, on all occasions, Catholics ask for each other’s prayers, and pray for those in need. They give the spiritual alms of prayers continually, even when they cannot perform the corporal works.
The faithful on earth, through the communion of saints, can relieve the sufferings of the souls in purgatory by prayer, fasting, and other good works, by indulgences, and by Masses offered for them.
St. Augustine says: “Prayer is the key by which we open the gates of heaven to the suffering souls.” In the Memento after the consecration at every Mass, a special petition is made for the souls of the faithful departed. The poor souls cannot merit anything; they depend upon their brothers in Christ on earth and in heaven to help them attain their eternal home as soon as possible.
The souls in purgatory pray to the angels and saints, and pray for the living.
They cannot merit anything, either for themselves or for the living, but they intercede for us.
Through the communion of saints, the blessed in heaven can help those in purgatory and on earth by praying for them. The faithful on earth should honor the blessed in heaven and pray to them, because they are worthy of honor and as friends of God will help the faithful on earth.
This is why we pray to the saints and angels that they may intercede for us before God, Whom they see face to face. “Rendering thanks to God the Father, who has made us worthy to share the lot of the saints in light” (Col. 1:12).
The doctrine of the communion of saints is one of the most consoling dogmas of the Church. When our loved ones die, they are not separated from us forever. Whether in heaven or purgatory, they still love us and pray for us.
We should be happy to call saints and angels our brothers. We should implore their intercession, not only for ourselves, but also for our other brothers, the poor souls in purgatory.
http://www.catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/MyCatholicFaith/mcfc074.htm
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/chura1.htm
I like Ann Barnhardt. She's obviously very smart and she loves Jesus. And I happen to agree with her on the wussification of the clergy and the damage that did and continues to do.
My only criticism is that she's something of an armchair quarterback. She talks about how married couples need to have eight babies by c-section, which is fine as far as that goes, but the thing is she isn't married with children. Jesus warned us about laying burdens on other people that we're unwilling to take up ourselves. So far, Ann Barnhardt talks a good game. When she's had her first sleepiness night with a new born and covered with baby barf she can tell me about it. Or even put up with a demanding spouse for a single day. I'd love to hear all about that. Until then, she really should stick to abstracts and not call people out for failing to live up to her lofty ideals, as she does about every other post.
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