Posted on 02/08/2015 5:56:52 AM PST by infool7
“Not necessarily.”
At this point it really doesn’t matter if Teddy is burning in hell. The value of the Catholic Brand has been affirmed by the master marketers in the Vatican, and the author of the post affirms the marketing strategy. The thought of Teddy in heaven only INCREASES the value perception of the Catholic brand - if it can wash the stain out of the soul of that windbag fornicator, just think what it will do for YOUR dirty laundry!!
Sure, actual devout Catholics are able to take a step back and say “Not Necessarily” (lol) at the mere possibility that Teddy didn’t quite make it to Heaven.
All that matters is that the laity THINKS the value of being Catholic is of such value over not being Catholic that they maintain their market share - while possibly increasing their market through incremental conversions of new customers (Protestants) who become concerned that the detergent sold by their favorite outlet may not cleanse the soul as well as the Catholic brand.
Why did you exclude verses 7 - 11, which describe Peter rising and making his point (with which James then concurred)?
All that matter is obedience to Christ.
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
It seems to me that you are alluding to Martin Luther as your authority...
It matters not what Christian congregation you belong to. Interestingly, my wife is from a very devout catholic family. we’re talking mass every day. Yet her father is “afraid he is not saved” because of how he treated his parents when he was a teenager. He’s 85ish. He also doesn’t EVER read the bible because he trusts others to interpret it for him. Judge a tree by its fruit.
My wife has been trying to minister to him, sharing the good news of salvation.
He’s not the only elderly devout catholic we’ve seen this with. I can’t explain it, but It sure seems to be out there.
I wish you well in your "discussions" with a few of the usual Protestant v Catholic warriors. They seem to be a hard-hearted bunch and many seem to be angry as if still reeling from some past unforgiven wound.
To make their points, they will use whatever snippets of Scripture they deem appropriate, often as a weapon, usually like a club to beat on those who disagree, followed by sarcasm if you don't accept the beat down.
You'll notice a pack-like behavior where they will call in their like minded allies to attack and ridicule the offender whenever necessary. Painful to watch, even from a distance.
I'm a seeker, not a player, and aim to be like Switzerland in the PvC wars whenever and wherever they may be fought. But I can't help but worry about the combatants, though.
There is plenty of Scripture that cautions us from such wars and hostile behaviors toward brethren.
Blessed are the peacemakers. Amen.
Christ judged the 5th century Plains Indian according to the Natural Law, which is indelibly inscribed on the heart of every human being by God....that 5th century Plains Indian, if he lived his life in accord with the Natural Law, coupled with genuine invincible ignorance (due to physical location), made it through his Particular Judgment before Our Lord, is now far, far, far more Catholic than any of us.
What happens to Christians when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
Wrong. If they are Christians when they die then they will ever be with the Lord, as will those be who are alive when the the Lord returns. (2Co. 5:8; Phil. 1:21-13; Acts 7:59; Lk. 23:39; 1Ths. 4:17)
But here we see Roman reasoning revealing what they really believe, which is that regardless of assent to Christ's atonement, they really believe that all souls will be saved based upon whether their works merited them salvation. Thus Christians are not saved and the lost are not damned until the final judgment.
However, what Scripture teaches is that the lost are presently damned, (Jn. 3:36) and those who die in their sins, (cf. Jn. 6:24) are already damned when they die, (Lk. 16:19-31) but will be sentenced according to their degree of guilt at the final judgment, (Rv. 20:11-10) after the second resurrection, the 1st resurrection being that of a believers 1,000 years previous, but which Rome denies.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
The only postmortem judgment believers face is that of the judgment seat of Christ, which is not that which determines whether they are saved or not, but what manner of rewards they will receive, or suffer the loss of. (1Co. 3:8ff )
What happens to atheists/musloids/animists [etc] when they die? They are judged by Jesus Christ, and will either attain the Beatific Vision in the Church Triumphant, or be damned to hell.
Wrong. One either dies a believer who has trusted in the mercy of God to save him, or he has not. I think it may be possible that pagans who obey the light they have, can be looking toward Christ like men before Moses and before Christ, and be saved by casting themselves upon the mercy of God as damned + destitute (of any salvific merit) sinners, if given the revelation of the true God, which grace God owes to none. Which still means they essentially come to the Father thru Christ, who is the True Light which lightens man to Truth.(Jn. 1:9) But which essentially requires the redeemable to reject the world's religions as a whole, though they may provide some light. .
The lost go to Hell because they die as impenitent unbelieving sinners as God gave them rational life, and innate knowledge that there is a God, and morality, and grace to obey light, but they rejected the light and grace they did have, even if they did not know of Christ. (Gn. 4:7; Prov. 1:20-32; Rm. 1:19-23)
Meanwhile the redeemed in Heaven are there because God drew them, convicted them, opened their heart, and granted them repentant faith, and then worked in them to do His good pleasure, motivating and enabling them to believe and obey God, and persevered in faith by God's grace, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32; 16:9; Acts 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9; Phil. 2:13) and which faith as manifest by works, He recompenses in grace. (Heb. 6:9,10)
And God is free to give more grace to others, (Mt. 20:1-16) and to without grace, while He only condemns man for what he was accountable for, relative to the grace given him. (Lk. 24:34)
I BELIEVE that the Catholic Church is the ONE, TRUE CHURCH of Christ, instituted by Him in the Upper Room, and is now and always will be His Body and His Bride. There is only ONE Church. There is only ONE True Religion
But which refers to the body of Christ which is not one particular church, esp. not the church of Rome, which is the largest manifest deformation of it .
A horrific doctrine! It destroys evangelism and is nowhere taught in the scripture.
Those people who are judged according to "natural law" are condemned by it. Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
They are not ignorant of the law, and so they are destroyed by it. This was Paul's entire argument to begin with. First to show the guilt of the Gentiles, and of the Jews, of which he concludes in chapter 3:
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
The reason why God does not give them the Gospel or saves them is because God is not obligated to have mercy on all men. He gives it to whom He wills.
We can be assured there is none and if there is there are words added, words taken out, or the meaning of words changed.
I will try to help you also understand my position.
Post 108 Cynical responds to my post to another poster, Post 103 to MeneMeneTekelUpharsin, why MeneMeneTekelUpharsin can’t respond for him/herself I can only guess but Cynical responds with:
>>What authority can you site that validates your assertion that Catholicism does not follow scripture?<<
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Cynical’s post is just a snippit, it makes no sense(at least to me) all on it’s own. You and many others post what seems to me to be complete and utter unsupported nonsense on a regular basis. I don’t believe any of your various interpretations of the Gospel and thus far no one has provided me with any coherent reason to. It’s all just bla bla bla don’t be Catholic with no substance.
Whatever you are trying to accomplish I don’t know. I am sure you think you are doing the right thing but if you can’t provide something better, more cohesive, logical and inspiring then what I have found in the teachings of Catholic Church I will not be compelled to give any weight to the ideas you are trying to convey. You are welcome to keep trying and that is your prerogative but so far you have failed miserably. I love Christ and I love what I have come to believe is His One True Church on earth. Please forgive me and I am sorry if that bothers you and your friends.
You still never posted a link to where CB claims to be an authority.
I post Scripture, often verses within the context of the passage.
If that's complete and utter unsupported nonsense, then the problem is yours.
Spiritual truths are spiritually discerned and the man without the spirit cannot understand them.
If you find yourself unable to consider Scripture anything but nonsense, that should be a wake up call to you, setting off alarm bells that something is drastically wrong.
You need to take that up with God.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2:1-16 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—
these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
You can’t have it both ways...
If the Church has a major doctrine that says “candy is good” and a few minor comments warning “candy will rot your teeth.” That’s no excuse to claim the Church says “candy is bad.”
Ye
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
That's James speaking...He gave the final sentence...He was in charge...
I really think we have so much more in common than is apparent from arguing the minutia but I fall into the trap all the time and please accept my apologies.
I meant by posting this thread to open up the discussion because I feel that the doctrine is still largely misunderstood, silly me I thought it might help clarify things but I think now that it has done almost the exact opposite.
Aging can have terrible effects on our thought process and I am praying for your father in law that he may find peace from his anguish. I have found great peace and comfort in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, it may be helpful for him.
James did not concurr, you are making that up...Peter spoke first...Paul spoke second and James layed it out on the line...There's no question that James was the decision maker...
**Your salvation was won on the cross, all you have to do is accept it.**
You HAVE to accept it? Does that mean having to make an EFFORT to go hear a preacher? Does that mean HAVING to repent too? Jesus says we must be baptized in his name for the remission of sins, yet the unqualified ‘Ahimaaz’ (2Sam. 18:19-32) ministers will deny that command from the Lord as essential. That is like ‘accepting’ the killing of the passover, but not capturing the blood and applying it to the ‘doorway’.
That’s why the Lord commanded the apostles: “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” John 20:23
That teaching is begun in Acts 2.
“..God hath made this same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethern, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Acts 2:36-38
**Grace is the free gift of God lest any should boast.**
That’s right. Now,...when someone hands you a free gift, do you acknowledge it, but not physically take it?
It is not helpful. Barnhardt, a good lady, is like so many converts, zealously inflammatory. The Catholic position is that all Christians are in the Body of Christ. Hell, they even changed “the mass of all time” to accommodate the Jewish covenant. People concert themselves with study and knowledge. The Catholic faith is an intellectual’s faith, hence the conversion of so many scholars. Blog posts convert no one.
um.......what??? If you want to be serious you will need to stop playing the candy games.
This article is simply from a 37 years old wannebe theologian, who choose to stop paying federal taxes, resulting in her mortgage being foreclosed in 2012, and who thus commenced a total estate liquidation and vacated her home in the spring of 2013. And attacks the Novus Ordo Mass.
And i think Feeney would see her as being liberal, as without saying it, it allows for Prots to be saved.
But Rome can redefine/reinvent herself as needed.
PAST :
• Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9): "The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium." Satis Cognitum (# 9): June 29, 1896: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html
MODERN
RCC: 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?[335] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:…Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.[336]
• LUMEN GENTIUM: "..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities…"
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