Posted on 02/05/2015 2:50:39 PM PST by NYer
Is that what you consider the words of Jesus?
Don’t take my word. Here’s one original source. St. Irenaeus:
Here's one from THE Source.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
I thought that Catholics held the very words of Jesus Himself in such high regard. What happened here? Suddenly they don't count????
It’s not that they don’t count, its your interpretation that is nonsense. When Christ says to forgive 70 x7, forgiveness does not stop 490 times.
We have ONE interpretative authority, its called Petrine Authority.
You, Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, David Koresh, the Moonies, the Mormons, the pastors of the corrupt AME Churches, all disagree on the Holy Eucharist despite the clear words of Christ. So please don’t give us this words of Christ don’t count stuff.
John 6:53 Jesus therefore said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves.”
Wrong! I insist on only one truth and that to be found in God's word and not in some "trained theologian" or self declared "magisterium".
>>You don’t have the intepretative authority given exclusively St. Peter<<
Oh but I do.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
I will remain in the Holy Spirit and not in the Catholic Church.
>>You refuse to examine the works of those Protestants who have spent a lifetime studying scripture<<
Oh I have examined many of them and then "searched the scriptures to see if what they said was true" and found them wanting and in error, their teachings a lie and not the truth.
>>By your lights, the early Church fathers, Catholic and Protestant theologians who converted, the saints, the martyrs, the stigmatists, and all those thousands of others from Bobby Jindal to Tony Blair to Jewish Rabbis, and Nobel Laureates, were all wrong.<<
Wide is the way! Their kind were falling away already in Paul's time and by the time John wrote Revelation most of the assemblies had already left the true teaching. It's not at all surprising how far off the Catholic Church and those who follow it have fallen. We were told there would come a falling away and your fascination with the "crowd" is evidence enough.
What difference it's it to you? You believe all that Catholicism teaches is a lie anyway. Why focus so much on Jesus' mother and St. Joseph's personal lives? You bring it up constantly. Get over it!
All answered.
So Catholics take SOME words of Jesus literally, but not others?
So if Jesus didn’t really mean that we must be born again, then just what did He mean?
What’s the official infallible Catholic church interpretation of that passage?
Because it's a prime tool of Satan through the Catholic Church to draw peoples attention away from Christ.
Well, wait a minute now.....
Calling Mary *ever or perpetual virgin* is pretty much focusing on their personal lives now isn't it? And more than just a little bit.
Her personal sex life, or lack of it, is on display for all to see every single time someone calls her *Virgin Mary*. Giving her the name of *Virgin Mary* IS constantly focusing on her personal life. Catholics have incorporated it into her very title that they gave her.
We're certainly not the ones who started it and don't make her whole identity about her sex life.
Except that is not what it means.. Would Jesus tell a bunch heathens to eat His body to have eternal life?? Would your church allow Muslims and Mormons to eat His flesh ?? Context , context, context
yea all that "work" and sacrifice ..should lower the RC burn time
No that is not what it says ...
This scripture is addressing PROPHECY ...
2peter 1 …19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
A bit different in context huh??
Read to understand..
Pulpit Commentary Verse 20. - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. By "knowing this first" (γινώσκοντες) is meant that we must recognize this truth as of primary importance, or, before we commence the study of prophecy; the phrase occurs again in chapter 2 Peter 3:3. The literal translation of the following clause is, "that all prophecy of Scripture [there is no article] is not; all... not" (πᾶσα... οὐ) being a common Hebraism for none, οὑδεμία; but the verb is not ἔστι, "is," but γίνεται, "becomes, arises, comes into being." The word for "private" is ἰδίας, "special," or commonly, "one's own" (see 1 Peter 3:1, 5; chapter 2 Peter 2:16, 22; 3:3, 16, 17). The word rendered "interpretation" is ἐπιλύσεως, which is found nowhere else in the New Testament; the corresponding verb occurs in Mark 4:34, "He expounded all things;" and Acts 19:39, "It shall be determined or settled." These considerations, strengthened by the context, seem to guide us to the following explanation: No prophecy of Scripture arises from the prophet's own interpretation of the vision presented to his mind; for it was from God that the prophecy was brought, and men spoke as they were borne on by the Holy Spirit.
Even the “founder” of Sola Scriptura (Martin Luther), near the end of his life, was afraid that “any milkmaid who could read” would found a new Christian denomination based on his or her “interpretation” of the Bible.
source please
Steelfish..please link us to the magasteriums infallible commentary of the entire bible ...
We will look forward to it
I get all of that, but I can find just as many church fathers who did not accept real presence.
So you were baptized in the Catholic Church and then born again in your own religion.
Catholics are baptized once with water and the Holy Spirit, we then prepare for Reconciliation and First Communion, and then Confirmation. We receive a special grace by which our faith is deepened and strengthened, so that it will be strong enough not only for our own needs but for the needs of others with whom we shall try to share it.
Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and it is recorded in the Bible.
The former and non Catholics imply in the concept of “born again” that you are “saved” and entitled to eternal life with God just because you say that you believe. The Bible instructs us that Jesus will judge us upon our death, so you are not saved until you die. God will determine if you have true faith.
“...I can find just as many church fathers who did not accept real presence.”
I am sincerely curious, who?
Actually; there is.
Mormonism
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Catholicism
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You know the old saying:
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Well; How'm I doin'?
But it appears that MY personality IS the issue for some.
To heck with the content; that Elsie is just a rascal!
Capt. Hyperbole called.
He wants his cape back.
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