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To: Steelfish
>>But it is the Catholic Church that infallibly assembled the canonical texts and told you what Jesus taught.<<

That doesn't work like you seem to want it to Steelfish. It was the Jews which were entrusted with the oracles of God. Which for sure covers the Old Testament and also which did NOT include that apocrypha. So right there we have the Catholic Church adding to the words entrusted to the Jews by God. Then you have the problem with what was considered scripture by the apostles themselves. Not only did Jesus choose the apostles but told them the Holy Spirit would help them remember what He had taught "while He was with them.

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament was considered scripture long before the Catholic Church declared what they considered scripture which included books that were not considered scripture by those entrusted by God with what scripture was.

Bragging about the Catholic Church bringing us scripture is like bragging that Pontius Pilot brought us salvation. God used many evil men and groups of men to advance His will throughout History. Being one of them in no way guarantees current correctness.

230 posted on 02/15/2015 9:58:58 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

This is not a question about bragging. It has everything to do with authoritative interpretation. The process took some 300 or more years after the death of Christ in which the Bible books were assembled. Just as not all the writings that predated Christ were incorporated into the Bible, not all the writings since the death of Christ were authenticated as the “Word of God.”

In short, the Church existed BEFORE the Bible texts were authenticated as the true Word of God. This infallible authority is not a stop-and-go authority.

How many times does it need pointing out to you the text of John 21: 25

“But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.”

Thus the early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes,

“[W]here in practice was [the] apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).

The Church is the repository of this oral tradition, customs and rituals. This is why we have an infallible Petrine authority that even the “gates of hell” shall not prevail against. The Church, like the mustard tree, has grown its branches to every corner of the world. The Church that draws unto itself saints, martys, stigmatists and repentant sinners, like St. Augustine. This is the Church that brings in scholars and peasants.

Go spend some serious time on reading the works of some of the pre-eminent Lutheran scholars, like the late Rev. Richard Neuhaus who converted to Catholicism and founded the publication “First Things.”

At the tome of his conversion, Nehaus wrote:

“I have long believed that the Roman Catholic Church is the fullest expression of the church of Christ through time.”

Or, read the brilliant theological book by Benedict XVI, “Jesus, The Apostles, and the Early Church.”

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Apostles-Early-Church-Benedict/dp/1586172204

Ulf Ekman, the founder of Scandinavia’s biggest Bible school, with a congregation of some 4000 individuals, converted to Catholicism because his theological inquiry confirmed for him the indispensability of the Catholic sacraments.

Francis J. Beckwith, a “born-again” evangelical, a tenured professor at Baptist-affiliated Baylor University in Waco, Tex, was the president of the Evangelical Theological Society an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians, teachers, and authors of Biblical books who resigned and joined the Catholic Church. Since his exit, others have followed him.

At the end of day, say all you want, there is ONE truth Church. It can’t be otherwise.


231 posted on 02/15/2015 10:36:01 AM PST by Steelfish
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