Posted on 02/02/2015 3:08:42 PM PST by Morgana
Let's try things your way.
Mary is mother of God.
The Heavenly Creator is God.
Therefore, Mary is the Heavenly Creator's own mother.
Here's a syllogism of the same logical form as yours:
Mary is the mother of a fireman.
Sam is a fireman.
Therefore: Mary is the mother of Sam.
As you can see, your syllogism is formally invalid. My example is formally invalid in precisely the same way. Undistributed middle.
My original syllogism, on the other hand, is valid:
Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus is God the Son, the Word Incarnate.
Mary is the mother of God the Son, the Word Incarnate.
Mary is the mother of the Incarnate Word of God, the Incarnate Son of God, i.e., Jesus Christ. She began to be his mother around the year 0 A.D. She did not exist when the universe was created.
Mary is the mother of a man who is also God. The Incarnate Word of God had a human mother, whose name was Mary. God-made-man was the son of Mary. Mary is the mother of God.
Since you blundered with your last attempt to formulate a syllogism, let's see you try to do it again, without botching it.
No, it makes it blasphemy.
She is not God and God has no mother. God is eternal and self-existent.
She is the mother of a person who is God the Son.
She is mother of a person born who is called the Son of God.
A person who is God the Son is her son. She is the mother of God the Son.
She is mother of God the Son Incarnate, which is not the same as being mother of the Second person of the Trinity, the mother of His divinity as another Catholic poster claimed.
She is the mother of God.
Nope. God has no mother.
Jesus did.
There's that projection thing again.
It's a shame that Catholics can't understand love for the truth.
The only thing that is hated is the lies propagated by Catholicism that lead people away from the Truth of God's word.
You also have yet to prove that anyone *hates* Mary. Refusing to call her the fabricated name based on faulty logic that the Catholic church has assigned her is not *hating* anyone no matter how much someone wants to believe it.
If the best argument for calling her *mother of God* Catholics have is to falsely accuse others of *hate* then they have a pretty weak case.
Since all Christians believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus,
There is no rational basis for objecting to calling Mary the mother of God.
Sure there is. Because the Holy Spirit when He inspired and breathed out Scripture, saw fit to address her as *mother of JESUS*.
If He had used the term *Mother of God*, it wouldn't be an issue.
But when anyone comes along and changes what the Holy Spirit inspired, then those who love and defend the truth WILL speak up.
Thus, there can only be irrational bases for objecting to calling Mary the mother of God.
So adhering to the integrity of Scripture and agreeing with that is *irrational*, eh?
That's telling......
What of your own? It was apples and oranges, as another (logically) pointed out.
Why did you persist, and now add all the rest of the "additional explanation" sort of thing?
As I pointed out, all of that type of thing can be required, even regardless of which "title" one gives to Mary, herself.
Mother of God, can go too far, as I just demonstrated.
There is logical enough reason to shy away from full-throated exclamation of that term, and still be able to get to place of understanding that is was God Himself, in the form of the Son (the heir, even, as Jesus used that concept in explaining 'how the heavens go' in regards to man) whom willingly gave Himself, for us...even for those whom had cruelly rejected Him.
While "mother of Jesus" also, admittedly enough as a closed phrase, if you will, doesn't tell us much about who Jesus really is, and so also requires additional information & explanation, but not to explain Mary, herself.
Yes.
I dunno about that last.
As for the first part, God the Son Incarnate is indeed the 2nd person of the Trinity, being He was from before He was born -- AND -- when He was born, thus ultimately, in that sense, Mary did give birth to the One whom we otherwise accept the description, was "fully man, and fully God", with there being no divisibility of those aspects -- when He existed in the form of a man.
What exactly we should think of Him now (other than God?) can be somewhat puzzling. He did say to his disciples (John 6:62)
On His Father's side, He was God.
And He was Jewish, on his mother's side.
Yet now -- has indeed returned to where He was "before" (like -- where He was before He was born in the likeness of sinful flesh making Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. (Romans 8:3, and Philippians 2:7).
Don't get me wrong ma, I'm not meaning to be coming across as lecturing to you, but instead am writing of Christological considerations. Perhaps someone out there in the interwebs could be edified. Meanwhile, this conversation is intruding upon the rest of the forum...
I don't believe it's an intrusion...
But I'm thinking that your position brings us to: did the 2nd person of the Trinity die on the Cross??? So far, I don't believe he did...
Most; like 'some'; is a MARVELOUS word!
It allows one to make the MOST outrageous remarks and continue on down the road.
In answer to this question; Where does Rome find, in the Bible, the reasoning fort a LOT of it's non-biblical doctrines??; most FR Catholics will immediately respond,
"Who are YOU to limit what GOD can do?"
Where???
The last ain't too bad; either...!
Heck; them CATHOLIC scribes didn't do too swell at transcribing THAT, when one considers ALL of the variations they produced!
Follow?
THIS guy!?
An AWFUL lot of our FR Catholics have expressed a visceral dislike for the poor fella!
The Health Risks of gay sex.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
But there IS hope!!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
Only those who have PASSED Logic 101!
Uh..
...the Protestants will gag on the words he is placing in their collective mouths?
Rome DOES have pictures of folks, whose attention is grabbed by; something.
Why COULDn"t have been Mary?
Who are YOU to limit what GOD can do???
Now WAIT! just a gol durned MINUTE here!!!
Let's try some easy math:
There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;
If merely 1% of them 'ask' Mary for help just once each day;
that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.
Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)
...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!
Purty good fer someone NOT a deity!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.