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To: LearsFool

It’s not an odd question considering the Preterist doctrine of all prophecy being fulfilled in 70 AD.

You are implying that “this generation” means the generation of human beings existing in 70 AD.

The Scripture plainly states that “this” generation (the one that Jesus is speaking of) is the generation that witnesses:

1) A tribulation that has never been seen before or ever will be witnessed.

(WWII and the Holocaust far exceeds any Judeaen-Roman war; the Stalinist and Maoist famines exceed any Roman seige famine that preceeded it, etc.)

2) The sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

(Was there a solar and lunar eclipse in that region of the world in that time period? And how about the “powers of heavens shaken”?)

3) The sign of the Son of man in heaven.
(The closest thing we have in history to this was the cross appearing to Constantine in 312 AD - over 200 years after the Temple was razed)

4) All the tribes of the earth mourn.

(Didn’t happen)

5) [All tribes of the earth] shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(Didn’t happen)

6) [Jesus] shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

(The OPPOSITE of this happened - the Diaspora. Only in 1948 in the founding of Israel did anything like this start happening.)


Along with all other prophecy previously mentioned.

As I explained in detail above, I don’t believe anyone in 70 AD saw any of these things happen. Therefore, “this generation” is not the generation from 70 AD.


77 posted on 01/29/2015 6:41:20 AM PST by angryoldfatman
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To: angryoldfatman
You don't seem to be aware of what was coming upon Jerusalem and the Jewish people for their rejection of God and His Christ. Look more closely into Matthew's gospel. For instance:

"Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers...Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth...Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." - Matthew 23:31ff

The time for their punishment was near at hand, because of their final rejection of the Son (just as in the parable of the wicked husbandmen in Matt. 21.) They would reject and crucify Him, then God would overturn their verdict with power, and they would be given their final chance for repentance before their judgment fell upon them. Listen to what Jesus told the disciples:

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." - Matthew 10:23

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the language used to describe the coming of the Lord in judgments throughout history. Here are a few examples:

"Behold, Jehovah rideth upon a swift cloud, and cometh"

"Wail ye; for the day of Jehovah is at hand; as destruction from the Almighty shall it come...pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman in travail...Behold, the day of Jehovah cometh, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation."

"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in its going forth, and the moon shall not cause its light to shine...I will make a man more rare than fine gold"

Are those prophecies about the Lord's return in final judgment? No. This is language that was often used to describe the Lord's various judgments on peoples and nations. But if a person is unfamiliar with this language, it's easy to assume that it must be a reference to the final judgment.

With that in mind, now take another look at Joel's prophecy, and what Peter said in Acts 2 were the days of its fulfillment. Those "last days" brought showers of blessings from God for those who sought Him, but would bring wrath and punishment upon those who stubbornly persisted in their rejection of His Son.

That's what Jesus was prophesying of in Matthew 24. It was coming upon "this generation".

"For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man also shall be ashamed of him, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power." - Mark 8:38-9:1
78 posted on 01/29/2015 9:46:07 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: angryoldfatman
Here are a couple more examples of judgment imagery in the Bible, to help acquaint you with it:

"I will also water with thy blood the land wherein thou swimmest, even to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of thee. And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God."

"Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree."

The end of the world? Nope.
79 posted on 01/29/2015 10:58:13 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: angryoldfatman

“1) A tribulation that has never been seen before or ever will be witnessed.”

Jesus was not the first to use this language. Ezekiel used it to describe the coming destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar.

‘And because of all your abominations, I will do among you what I have not done, and the like of which I will never do again. ‘Therefore, fathers will eat their sons among you, and sons will eat their fathers; for I will execute judgments on you and scatter all your remnant to every wind. ‘So as I live,’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘surely, because you have defiled My sanctuary with all your detestable idols and with all your abominations, therefore I will also withdraw, and My eye will have no pity and I will not spare. ‘One third of you will die by plague or be consumed by famine among you, one third will fall by the sword around you, and one third I will scatter to every wind, and I will unsheathe a sword behind them. Ezekiel 5:9-12

This was fulfilled in 586 BC. Christ used similar language when He prophesied against Jerusalem. That is why the people - not the religious leaders - viewed Him as a prophet.


82 posted on 01/30/2015 1:09:35 AM PST by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: angryoldfatman

“5) [All tribes of the earth] shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

“(Didn’t happen)”

Yes it did. But again, the language in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7 comes straight out of the Old Testament:

“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen. Revelation 1:7

Now, here’s the OT context for understanding these verses:

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives. Zechariah 12:10-14

The prophecies of Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 refer to Jerusalem and Judea. They have nothing to do with anyone living today.


84 posted on 01/30/2015 1:15:38 AM PST by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: angryoldfatman

“I don’t believe anyone in 70 AD saw any of these things happen. Therefore, “this generation” is not the generation from 70 AD.”

So what you’re really saying is, “My belief forms the basis for my understanding of the Bible.”

Seems to me you have it completely backwards.


96 posted on 01/30/2015 7:24:52 PM PST by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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