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To: Steelfish

That's something of a non sequitur, while also deflecting the burden upon my own self for things which you have just established that you yourself have no actual 'authority'.

In regards to formation of NT canon, you say such things as;

while seeming to make things out to be that this was established by this "Petrine authority" which you keep returning to make mention of.

Yet the canon of the NT was not established through the singular office of the bishop of Rome --- which it would have had to have been -- if this "Petrine authoirty" concept which you hold (and just how you and many other Catholics "hold" it to be) were to have any validity in this area.

181 posted on 01/26/2015 9:10:16 PM PST by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

Actually your historical understanding of Petrine authority and the role of the early Church fathers is misplaced. I say this respectfully. The short answer is that is through Petrine authority that both the books in the Bible and interpretation of key scriptural passages were understood.

One of the earliest Christian documents is the Didache, known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, which probably dates from the 1st century. Sections 9 and 10 deal with the Eucharist [Gk.Eucharistias] and prayers of thanks that allude to the Mass.

Here are examples of early Church fathers. St. Clement of Rome was the third successor of Peter the Apostle as bishop of Rome, our fourth Pope. St. Irenaeus (Book III, iii) tells us that Clement “saw the blessed Apostles and conversed with them, and had yet ringing in his ears the preaching of the Apostles and had their tradition before his eyes, and not he only for many were then surviving who had been taught by the Apostles. “ Similarly Epiphanius tells us that Clement was a contemporary of Peter and Paul. There is a tradition that he was ordained by St. Peter and acted as a kind of auxiliary bishop to Linus and Anacletus, his predecessors in the papal chair. His letter to the Corinthians was written between 70-96 A.D.

For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch was a pagan by birth and a Syrian. He became the third bishop of Antioch and may be considered an apostolic Father in the sense that he heard the Apostle John preach. About 110 A.D. he was sentenced to a martyr’s death in the arena by the Emperor Trajan, who also put Pope Clement to death.

He makes an unforgettable reference when he urges Christians to assemble in common and obey the bishop, “breaking one bread that is the medicine of immortality and the antidote against dying that offers life for all in Jesus Christ.” These beautiful words sum up Jesus’ own teaching in John 6 and St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 11. Notice also that he refers to the Eucharist as a sacrifice as did the authors of the Didache. Eucharistic theology seems almost complete in St. Ignatius.

Take the case of St. Irenaeus. He heard the preaching of Bishop Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John, writing a famous tract Against Heresies between 180 and 190 A.D. is the first to provide explicit mention of the change that takes place in the bread and wine when they become the Eucharist. The earthly creation (bread and wine) are raised to a heavenly dignity after they “receive the word of God” [at the epiclesis of the Mass or the invocation to the Holy Spirit] and become the food and drink of Christians. So how then can we doubt that, “Our bodies, receiving the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible but have the hope of resurrection to eternal life.”

What all this means is that we cannot simply open the pages of the Bible and read it like a newspaper and therefore we must rely on authoritative interpretations.


182 posted on 01/26/2015 9:20:35 PM PST by Steelfish
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