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Pagan Saints
The Cripplegate ^ | July 19,2012 | Nathan Busenitz

Posted on 01/21/2015 4:47:04 PM PST by RnMomof7

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To: CynicalBear

Please provide a link for the two Church quotes cited. There is no way I know of to search the online Catholic Encyclopedia simply by the numbers given. I would like to read them in context.

Here’s the rub... our Protestant FRiends imagine a Word that spoke from the beginning, through the time of Christ, through the Apostles... and then shut up for the remainder of history. That isn’t what Christ promised. He promised the Holy Spirit to teach all things to His Church. When you search the Bible to find what is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, you don’t find the Bible (which wasn’t codified for centuries after the Apostles), you find the Church (1 Tim 3:15).

Jesus shouldn’t be reduced to words once recorded. He is the living Word of God and our revelation of God is ongoing.

Your quote of Jeremiah also requires context. The cult of the Queen of Heaven was a specific cult in his time... worship of the moon. Their successors continue today in the cult of Islam. Too many times, our Protestant FRiends take passages of the Bible out of context to use as a weapon against fellow Christians... incorrectly.


121 posted on 01/21/2015 7:54:29 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: ifinnegan

Yes I believe the Hindus have more gods in their pantheon.

And it’s not like the Indo ME world was isolated from the Roman empire. There was ample trade routes and contact.


122 posted on 01/21/2015 7:56:06 PM PST by redleghunter (Your faith has saved you. Go in peace. (Luke 7:50))
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To: Resettozero
It appears you place yourselves (us) in the lineage of the Pharisees and Saducees, among other Jewish religious authorities (Sanhedrin), rather than as true children of Abraham via saving faith in Jesus of Nazareth as Christ and Son of the Living God, as was revealed by the Father to Peter and, through Scripture and preaching of the Gospel, to all Christian believers in Jesus ever since then.

Uh... no. You presume too much and also seem to forget that St Paul proudly called himself a pharisee. As such, he believed in the resurrection of the dead (Acts 23:6). The Jewish faith and that of the pharisees was not incorrect. Jesus didn't say they were all wrong. He reproofed their practice of the faith, onerous regulations, and their selfishness. Otherwise, He revealed what they did not understand.

123 posted on 01/21/2015 7:59:09 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: RnMomof7

Paging Ralph Woodrow. Recant your recantation of your book, Babylon Mystery Religion?


124 posted on 01/21/2015 8:01:49 PM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: Claud

“Ok so at what point after 100 AD did praying to saints get “introduced”? And by whom? And did anyone object?”

We know it isn’t in the Bible. We know the NT church didn’t practice it. We know it was added later. We know it is a pagan practice.

For any believer in Christ that is enough to disregard it and to object to it.

If you are interested in the historical development of catholic syncretism in regards to pagan culture, I thimk you should pursue it with gusto.

If you are interested in following Christ, I think you shouldn’t practice it.


125 posted on 01/21/2015 8:02:45 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: Salvation; RnMomof7

Scripture teaches that all believers are saints. Scripture trumps the Catholic Church.


126 posted on 01/21/2015 8:02:53 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: pgyanke
Otherwise, He revealed what they did not understand.

Sugarcoat the truth much?

Saul of Tarsus WAS a Pharisee of Pharisees, he said. AFTER his encounter with Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus and AFTER he began his Christian ministry, Paul's membership in the Sanhedrin was likely revoked.

Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and asked how would they escape Hell.

No...I am NOT a Judaiser and have been Scripturally warned to avoid fellowship with Judaisers.
127 posted on 01/21/2015 8:07:04 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Bookmarking.


128 posted on 01/21/2015 8:07:40 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (Just say to NO Rhinos in 2016.)
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To: pgyanke
No, Here’s the rub...

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

If you can't show that the apostles taught what your church teaches your church is to be considered accursed.

129 posted on 01/21/2015 8:08:50 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
On the other hand Jesus said: Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. No Catholic Church needed.

In fact, no church needed at all. In other words, you are arguing that Jesus was lying when he said he was going to found a "church."

130 posted on 01/21/2015 8:11:00 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: CynicalBear
>>This is why so many Protestants deride the saints as “dead people.”<<

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

So you take the Old Testament as the last word on every doctrinal question? Nothing new was revealed in the New Testament?

If you take Ecclesiastes as the last word on eternal life, then you must deny the Resurrection.

131 posted on 01/21/2015 8:13:40 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Resettozero
Saul of Tarsus WAS a Pharisee of Pharisees, he said. AFTER his encounter with Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus and AFTER he began his Christian ministry, Paul's membership in the Sanhedrin was likely revoked.

Did you happen to see the Scripture citation I offered? It was well after his conversion.

132 posted on 01/21/2015 8:18:04 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Salvation
And Catholicism is not paganism nor is it polytheism as the perpetrators of this thread are implying. Just more false witness. I think some of these people are actually Jehovah's Witnesses. They seem awfully well versed in strange beliefs.
133 posted on 01/21/2015 8:18:51 PM PST by virgil (The evil that men do lives after them)
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To: pgyanke
Did you happen to see the Scripture citation I offered? It was well after his conversion.

What trick are you trying to play on me?! Paul indeed believed in the resurrection of the dead long after his name was changed from Saul. SO DO I AND ALL CHRISTIANS...and I never was a Pharisee.
134 posted on 01/21/2015 8:22:41 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: CynicalBear
If you can't show that the apostles taught what your church teaches your church is to be considered accursed.

I can agree with that... and I don't have that problem. Here's the rub... the Gospel is the account of the life, death and resurrection of Christ--definitionally. You seem to think the Gospel includes all of the other things recorded in Scripture as well--all of the Epistles and such. It is not. There is more that was said and done by Christ than what was recorded (John 21:25) because what was recorded was written for a purpose. The Bible is not a full Catechism of faith but rather the story of our fall and redemption. After that, there is still much to say in regards to worship and daily life. The Church has taught these things from the Deposit of Faith given by Christ and the ongoing revelation of the Holy Spirit.

135 posted on 01/21/2015 8:23:37 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Arthur McGowan


In fact, no church needed at all. In other words, you are arguing that Jesus was lying when he said he was going to found a “church.”

Nah. He said He was founding a gathering. Not a church.


136 posted on 01/21/2015 8:23:52 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: Resettozero
What trick are you trying to play on me?! Paul indeed believed in the resurrection of the dead long after his name was changed from Saul. SO DO I AND ALL CHRISTIANS...and I never was a Pharisee.

No trick... just reading. You may not be a Pharisee but St Paul was a Pharisee before AND after his conversion.

"Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees. I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead." Acts 23:6

137 posted on 01/21/2015 8:27:24 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Arthur McGowan
In other words, you are arguing that Jesus was lying when he said he was going to found a "church."

Noooo. But you are deceived into believing He meant ONLY the RCC founded on Peter as RCC's first pope.
138 posted on 01/21/2015 8:29:06 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Nah. He said He was founding a gathering. Not a church.

Wow. I knew we disagreed on the identification of St Peter as the first Pope from Matt 16:18... I had no idea we disagreed on the word "Church." Learn something new everyday...

139 posted on 01/21/2015 8:30:19 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke
>>After that, there is still much to say in regards to worship and daily life. The Church has taught these things from the Deposit of Faith given by Christ and the ongoing revelation of the Holy Spirit.<<

So prove that the apostles taught it just as the Catholic Church does. The assumption of Mary would be a good start since Catholics are obliged to believe it.

140 posted on 01/21/2015 8:30:54 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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