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To: PieterCasparzen
And the Bible tells us that, if a man does not listen after a few attempts, then we should move on.

It also tells us to remove the log from our own eye, before attacking the speck in someone else's eye.

Swapping those two teachings inappropriately has led to the protection of a lot of ignorance, by letting people blame others when they should have blamed themselves.

And historically, that exact mistake has led to wars - over and over and over again.

42 posted on 01/18/2015 12:20:23 AM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker
And the Bible tells us that, if a man does not listen after a few attempts, then we should move on.

It also tells us to remove the log from our own eye, before attacking the speck in someone else's eye.

Swapping those two teachings inappropriately has led to the protection of a lot of ignorance, by letting people blame others when they should have blamed themselves.

And historically, that exact mistake has led to wars - over and over and over again.


The two teachings are in two different areas. One is spreading the true gospel message, discussing the Word of God, etc. To wit:

Titus 3

"1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

The other teaching is about hypocrisy - and we can note that the context does indeed instruct us to cast the mote out of our brother's eye, just AFTER we have cast the beam out of our own:

Matthew 7

"4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

This is not saying to ignore all sin and let sin continue wantonly amongst Christians, but to be on the lookout for sin and identify it when we see it - BUT before we say something to someone else we certainly should take inventory of ourselves and make sure WE don't have sins even more grave that we need to confess. And if we do - we are not to "let the other guy sin because we are". Now there are two habitual grave unrepentant sinners in the Church. No, we are to get right with God, confess to God, repent. The message is to not be a hypocrite when we rightly discern the actions and words of others, not to welcome wicked men as leaders that we look up to and model ourselves after.

As I referenced in my other post, this issue is surrounding a public figure that many people assert is a leader to be admired, looked to as an example, etc., and who publicly presented himself as an ordained pastor. In such a case the Bible instructs us to compare them to the Biblical template for such leaders:

1 Timothy 3

"1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus."
52 posted on 01/18/2015 1:37:17 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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