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To: LearsFool
It's important to note that what happened here was different from the usual receiving of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the only similar case Peter can think of is way back at Pentecost. (Recall Acts 8, where people were baptized into Jesus, and only later, when Peter and John come up and lay their hands on them, do they receive the Holy Spirit.)

Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

These people were WATER baptized but were not born of the Spirit...Not born again...No spiritual rebirth...

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

When these disciples were baptized the 2nd time, was there water involved???

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John contrasts two baptisms here...One is with water, the other is with fire (and the Holy Ghost)...John did not say that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Ghost, water, and fire...

Baptism does not mean 'water'...Baptism means immersion...

In John's (water) baptism, no one received the Holy Spirit...John's water baptism was a symbol...A symbol that the person had repented/turned to Jesus...

At Pentecost, the apostles and disciples were not sprinkled or dipped before the Holy Ghost with cloven tongues of fire fell upon them...There is no mention of water in Acts 2:38...

I'm surprised when people turn to scriptures about faith or repentance, or confession of Christ when the question is about baptism.

You have to...They are intertwined...Baptism without faith and repentance would be meaningless...

228 posted on 01/19/2015 11:24:55 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
John's statement about Jesus baptizing "in the Holy Spirit and in fire" is partly explained in the previous and following verses:

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?...And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire." - Matt. 3:7, 10-12

Does this fire baptism save or destroy?

Yes, John baptized in water, as did Jesus:

"After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Enon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized....And they came unto John, and said to him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond the Jordan, to whom thou hast borne witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him." - John 3:22-23, 26

Was Jesus baptizing in the Holy Spirit and in fire? Or in water?

John was preparing the people for the Messiah and His kingdom, "preaching the baptism of repentance unto remission of sins" (Luke 3:3) The people "were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins." (Matt. 3:6) I don't see how they could've been "turning to Jesus" as you suggest, since John was baptizing before Jesus had manifested Himself.

We must also keep in mind that this all took place before the new covenant had been established. Perhaps Apollos had been in Judea when John was baptizing and preaching, but not afterward when the gospel was being preached by the apostles. The Holy Spirit was not yet being received by the faithful. That would begin at Pentecost, at the fulfilling of Joel's prophecy.

Those in Ephesus (in Acts 19) had been baptized in John's "baptism of repentance". But when they heard of the baptism of Jesus, they were baptized into Him. Why?

Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they were baptized into Jesus? Or when Paul laid his hands on them?

You have to...They are intertwined...Baptism without faith and repentance would be meaningless...

Okay, you're right. We need to look at everything the Bible says about what to do to be saved, and not exclude those which discuss baptism.
229 posted on 01/19/2015 12:56:54 PM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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