Posted on 01/16/2015 5:56:35 AM PST by metmom
CLASSIFICATION IS ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT of all tasks. Even in the realm of religion there are enough lights and shades to make it injudicious to draw too fine a line between men and men. If the religious world were composed of squares of solid black and solid white classification would be easy; but unfortunately it is not.
It is a grave error for us evangelicals to assume that the children of God are all in our communion and that all who are not associated with us are ipso facto enemies of the Lord. The Pharisees made that mistake and crucified Christ as a consequence.
With all this in mind, and leaning over backwards to be fair and charitable, there is yet one distinction which we dare make, which indeed we must make if we are to think the thoughts of God after Him and bring our beliefs into harmony with the Holy Scriptures. That distinction is the one which exists between two classes of human beings, the once-born and the twice-born.
That such a distinction does in fact exist was taught by our Lord with great plainness of speech, in contexts which preclude the possibility that He was merely speaking figuratively. "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," He said, and the whole chapter where these words are found confirms that He was speaking precisely, setting forth meanings as blunt and downright as it is possible for language to convey.
"Ye must be born again," said Christ. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." This clear line of demarcation runs through the entire New Testament, quite literally dividing one human being from another and making a distinction as sharp as that which exists between different genera of the animal kingdom.
Just who belongs to one class and who to the other it is not always possible to judge, though the two kinds of life ordinarily separate from each other. Those who are twice-born crystallize around the Person of Christ and cluster together in companies, while the once-born are held together only by the ties of nature, aided by the ties of race or by common political and social interests.
Our Lord warned His disciples that they would be persecuted. "In the world ye shall have tribulation," He said, and "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."
These are only two of many passages of the New Testament warning of persecution or recording the fact of harassment and attack suffered by the followers of the Lord. This same idea runs through the entire Bible from the once-born Cain who slew the twice-born Abel to the Book of the Revelation where the end of human history comes in a burst of blood and fire.
That hostility exists between the once-born and the twice-born is known to every student of the Bible; the reason for it was stated by Christ when He said, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." The rule was laid down by the apostle Paul when he wrote, "But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now."
Difference of moral standards between the onceborn and the twice-born, and their opposite ways of life, may be contributing causes of this hostility; but the real cause lies deeper. There are two spirits abroad in the earth: the spirit that works in the children of disobedience and the Spirit of God. These two can never be reconciled in time or in eternity. The spirit that dwells in the once-born is forever opposed to the Spirit that inhabits the heart of the twice-born. This hostility began somewhere in the remote past before the creation of man and continues to this day. The modern effort to bring peace between these two spirits is not only futile but contrary to the moral laws of the universe.
To teach that the spirit of the once-born is at enmity with the Spirit of the twice-born is to bring down upon one's head every kind of violent abuse. No language is too bitter to hurl against the conceited bigot who would dare to draw such a line of distinction between men. Such malignant ideas are at odds with the brotherhood of man, says the once-born, and are held only by the apostles of disunity and hate. This mighty rage against the twice-born only serves to confirm the truth they teach. But this no one seems to notice.
What we need to restore power to the Christian testimony is not soft talk about brotherhood but an honest recognition that two human races occupy the earth simultaneously: a fallen race that sprang from the loins of Adam and a regenerate race that is born of the Spirit through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.
To accept this truth requires a tough-mindedness and a spiritual maturity that modern Christians simply do not possess. To face up to it hardly contributes to that "peace of mind" after which our religious weaklings bleat so plaintively.
For myself, I long ago decided that I would rather know the truth than be happy in ignorance. If I cannot have both truth and happiness, give me truth. We'll have a long time to be happy in heaven.
So if you reject Peter, you reject Christ.
Total and unadulterated nonsense.
(Another statement by Jesus)
Chapter and verse?
The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.
Chapter and verse?
Apostolic succession is the line of bishops stretching back to the apostles. All over the world, all Catholic bishops are part of a lineage that goes back to the time of the apostles, something that is impossible in Protestant denominations (most of which do not even claim to have bishops).
Show me where the term *apostolic succession appears in Scripture.
We have Scripture. We don't need the *church fathers* to tell us what it says or means because we can read it ourselves to see what it says and the Holy Spirit tells us what it means.
And the vast majority of Scripture is not so complicated that it needs all those church leaders to tell us what it means.
One could spend a lifetime working on simply the stuff that's clear cut and obvious without even touching the stuff that Paul wrote that is hard to understand.
The only reasons Catholics find it hard to understand is that they don't lean on the Holy Spirit for understanding and the Catholic church has made salvation so stinking complicated, that they can then justify the hordes of *church leaders* to *correctly interpret* it for them.
Great job security. Create a system so ridiculously complicated that they create a need that they end up filling.
God made salvation easy.
Romans 10:9-13 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
86% of the churches recorded in Revelation were in error. Which one are you referring to?
Not unless one is born of the Spirit and has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
The unregenerate are slaves to sin. It's what they do. It comes naturally to them and they don't have the choice to obey God.
They only THINK they do because the enemy has lied to their minds and told them that they do.
You are still attempting to show the supremacy of the RCC system of beliefs over the written Word of God, the Holy Bible, by quoting just Roman Catholics. That is not a valid or acceptable proof.
Your pope Clement was granted authority by Jesus to do what and in what New Testament book is this giving of special authority recorded? All believers in Jesus Christ have been given authority, according to the Scriptures.
You are making stuff up. No papal authority extends greater than the Authority of Lord Jesus Christ. You are still greatly mistaken and are following the error of man-made (fictitious) and confused teachings of the RCC instead of the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
Only what is written in the Holy Bible is acceptable to born-again (born of the Spirit) believers in Jesus Christ as the verifiable written Word of God.
I see you are a devout practitioner of the Catholic religion, which is NOT the Church founded by Jesus Christ in spite of the RCC’s megalomaniacal claim contrary and in direct opposition to what Jesus Christ actually said and is recorded in the Holy Bible.
You are kicking against the goads on this thread. You must believe Jesus Christ and be born again of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God. Faith in anything or any system other than the Son of Man Who was lifted up...is misplaced.
What we believe, Nicene Creed, in “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic” Church as founded by Jesus Christ.
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/index.cfm
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
Which church do you belong to?
You are clueless and do not understand the Word of God.
You continue to make false statements.
I feel sorry for you when you ignore the Words of Jesus.
You are free to believe whatever you want, but it may not be God’s Truth. I do hope that you find salvation, but I also hope that you learn the Truth and not just your version of the truth.
The ekklesia which Christ established consisting of all those called out by God to be His.
That is simply a cult built mostly of paganism.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 2:1-16 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—
these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Correct Blue D. I am a former catholic myself, so I am familiar with "catholic speak." Your definition of "salvation" and "Good News," are light years different from the Catholic Churches definition. That is why I keep harping on the subject, that when dealing with cults, like the RCC, Mormons, JWs etc, you must specify in great detail exactly what you mean, because our terms and their terms mean radically different things. Faith does not mean the same to you, as it does to a cult member.
Same here bro, unfortunately. I witnessed till I was blue in the face, to no avail, but I did my job. There was one bright spot. My younger sister, also now, an ex catholic, almost went ballistic when I got saved and left the catholic church, but after years of watching my changed life, she also came to true saving faith in Jesus, dumped the RCC, and is now one of the most Godly women I know. She has been a blessing to me.
Sorry, but once again the scriptures blow your Catholic doctrine right out of the water...
It is sad that your religion has to pervert the scriptures to justify its false doctrines...
2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Of me, NOT from me...
Paul was telling Timothy to choose men like Paul to lead the ministry...Full of zeal for God...Integrity...Humble...And all the other things Paul was...Has nothing to do with what Paul taught...
But yet you'll use this perversion of scripture to con Catholics into believing apostolic succession is viable...
Who cares what Ignatius said (his writings were forgeries anyway)...Why don’t you guys care what God said??? God is the authority, not Ignatius...
I doubt that any one of them will read that...It’s just scripture...
But they will have no excuse when they stand before Jesus and Jesus opens that book to judge them by...All they’ll be able to say is, ‘I didn’t know that’...
And Jesus will tell them, “I showed those scriptures to you time and time again by my disciples on the FR forums....
Depart from me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
“I presume that he meant Baptism like the Sacrament initiated by Jesus in the Jordan that forgives original and actual sin.”
So Jesus was a sinner and needed Baptism? Your Bible doesn’t say one thing about sacraments does that mean it’s wrong?
“Baptism does not save”
“If baptism saves, then Christ died for nothing.”
Well...Peter would disagree with you. On both points. Actually, in the same sentence:
“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”
1 Peter 3:21.
“That means that everyone who has ever been baptized is saved, whether they want it or not, no matter how they live.”
No, because you can reject faith. Even after baptism. Baptism doesn’t negate the necessity of faith. That’s totally unbiblical.
“Traditionalists view God in the same way that Protestants do. Do it right or you are lost. They reject Vatican II’s qualification of the doctrine. They contend that Vatican II ignored earlier councils and introduced something new. Thus it is invalid and to be ignored. This of course is false. The Church’s teachings before and after the council are the same.”
Well you have one thing right that Vat II simply concurred with the COT. Now to say that your denominational teachings are the same before and after is... well a complete lie. After 21 or so councils your Church has changed many times sure they used really fancy words to clarify, but it still changed.
Jesus couldn’t have drank blood of any kind as that would have made him a sinner under the OT and under the NT teachings also. It also makes you a deliberate sinner or as you would have it a “Mortal Sin”.
Deuteronomy 12:2 3New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood; for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the life with the meat.
Acts 15:29 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Praise God our sins are forgiven:
Psalm 103:12 Amplified Bible (AMP)
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.