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To: Thales Miletus
But you have already displayed confused reasoning with regard to the reality of thoughts, so we are asking into which context you want this 'proof' to fit. There is the very strict frame of Physics reference, there is the less rigorous frame of behavior reference, and there is the supposed nebulous spiritual frame of reference.

To illustrate, check out what Jesus told Phillip in John's Gospel, Chapter fourteen, regarding the inability of the disciple to be 'shown the father God'. That was, for all practical purposes a Physics lesson, explaining that dimensionally God is so much greater than His created Universe that the complete vision of The Father is an impossibility for Phillip. What Jesus offers to Phillip is the most Phillip can 'know' of God, of God's nature.

If you seek a proof in the reference frame of a Physics experiment or equation, you will never have such a solution to hang your faith upon. However, the Bible informs us that God rewards those who diligently seek Him. Does it make sense to you to keep seeking that which is impossible to find, while rejecting the reward that is achievable/receivable?

120 posted on 01/09/2015 10:26:10 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN
But you have already displayed confused reasoning with regard to the reality of thoughts,

In your opinion.

To illustrate, check out what Jesus told Phillip in John's Gospel, Chapter fourteen, regarding the inability of the disciple to be 'shown the father God'. That was, for all practical purposes a Physics lesson, explaining that dimensionally God is so much greater than His created Universe that the complete vision of The Father is an impossibility for Phillip. What Jesus offers to Phillip is the most Phillip can 'know' of God, of God's nature.

Since you brought up the issue of physics. To the best of my knowledge the majority of Christians believe that God is an infinite being/ person. They also believe that God is three separate persons; God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. This means that you would have three separate infinities. That is an awful lot of infinities!

121 posted on 01/09/2015 12:37:12 PM PST by Thales Miletus
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To: Thales Miletus; MHGinTN; betty boop; metmom; mitch5501; marron; YHAOS; hosepipe
Since the issues of physical cosmology and geometric physics have been raised, I offer that space/time is more fundamental than any quantum field contained within its finite boundary. The issue goes to physical causality. Without space and time, there is no physical causality, no fields at all.

In the absence of space, things cannot exist.

In the absence of time, events cannot occur.

For that same reason, no physical cosmology obviates the beginning. They all (multi-verse, multi-world, cyclic, ekpyrotic, imaginary time, etc.) rely on pre-existing space/time for physical causality.

Indeed, the only cosmology which is “closed” is Max Tegmark’s Level IV Parallel Universe. And it is closed precisely because it is radical Platonism, it is not physical. In effect, it posits that everything observed “in” space/time is actually a manifestation of mathematical structures which really exist outside of space and time.

Mathematically, the dimension of a space is the minimum number of coordinates (axes) necessary to identify a point within the space. A space of zero dimensions is a point; one dimension, a line, two dimensions, a plane; three, a cube, etc. That is the geometry of it. In zero dimensions, the mathematical point is indivisible.

It is not nothing. It is a spatial point. A singularity is not nothing.

In ex nihilo Creation (beginning of space/time) - the dimensions are not merely zero, they are null, dimensions do not exist at all. There is no space and no time. Period.

There is no mathematical point, no volume, no content, no scalar quantities. Ex nihilo doesn’t exist in relationship to anything else; there is no thing.

In an existing physical space, each point (e.g. particle) can be parameterized by a quantity such as mass. The parameter (e.g. a specific quantity within the range of possible quantities) is in effect another descriptor or quasi-dimension that uniquely identifies the point within the space.

Moreover, if the quantity of the parameter changes for a point, then a time dimension is invoked. For example, at one moment the point value is “0” and the next it is “1”.

Wave propagation (e.g. big bang, inflation) cannot occur in null dimensions nor can it occur in zero spatial dimensions, a mathematical point; a dimension of time is required for any fluctuation in a parameter value at a point.

Moreover, wave propagation must also have a spatial/temporal relation from cause point to effect point, i.e. physical causation.

For instance “0” at point nt causes “1” at point n+1t+1 which causes "0" at point n+1t+2 etc..

Obviously, physical wave propagation (e.g. big bang/inflationary model) cannot precede space/time and physical causality. Again,

In the absence of space, things cannot exist.

In the absence of time, events cannot occur.

Both space and time are required for physical causation.

God's Name is I AM

138 posted on 01/10/2015 10:05:19 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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