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One of the important reasons why pretribulationists believe the refutation of midtribulationism is necessary is that it directly attacks the imminency of the Lord’s return for the church much in the same fashion as is true in posttribulationism. Midtribulationism has this added feature, however, which is most objectionable: it sets up a definite chronology requiring date-setting. The events of the first three and one-half years of Daniel’s prophecy are specific. They begin with a covenant between a Gentile ruler and Israel in which Israel is promised protection and Palestine becomes their national home. Such a covenant could not be a secret by its very nature as it would be heralded throughout Jewry and be of great interest to the entire world. Such a covenant would, on the one hand, make the coming of Christ impossible for three and one-half years, according to the midtribulationist, and, on the other hand, make an imminent coming impossible at any time prior to the covenant.If the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians is the Holy Spirit, it also sets up an impossible chronology—the Holy Spirit taken out of the world before the church is.

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And now Midtribulationism. Oy vay!

>>Midtribulationism has this added feature, however, which is most objectionable: it sets up a definite chronology requiring date-setting.<<

Both mid-trib and post-trib have that problem. I find it almost comical to watch those of either camp try to explain the seven years left of Daniel's prophecy.

So where does the Zombie Apocalypse fit in with all of this?

The so-called mid-tribulational rapture view is an attempt to address specific problems of the so-called pre-tribulational and post-tribulational views.

I think it is important in debating this subject in the context of Revelation to note that the translation of living believers is nowhere explicitly described in the book. Further, the resurrection of saints identified as an event in time only includes the bodily resurrection of those beheaded for their testimony (apparently a special resurrection). So what about all of the Old Testament saints? How about those who believed before the Law of Moses came (such as Abraham and other patriarchs)? How about New Testament believers who we agree as being the body of Christ, the Church?

ALL VIEWS about the timing of the rapture of the church in the context of Revelation are INFERRED.

That being said, I continue to hold the view that there remains a seven-year period during which God will bring about the salvation of all Israelites alive on the planet, and the fulfillment of all of the prophecies concerning Israel (though some are specific to the millennial kingdom that follows this seven-year period).

At the beginning of this seven-year period, the Anti-Christ will arise and deceive Israel, entering into a seven-year treaty with them. They, excluding those who have already trusted in Jesus, will believe the Anti-Christ is their awaited Messiah. They will be greatly disappointed.

In the middle of this seven-year period, the Anti-Christ will break his treaty, enter the rebuilt temple, and proclaim himself as God for all the world to worship. AT THAT TIME, there will be a “time of trouble” like none other. There are a specific set of signs, unique in the history of the world which identify this time period:

Revelation 6 describes identical events Christ spoke of to His disciples in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

1) Deception, False Christs, False Peace - Matthew 24:5; Mark 13:5,6; Luke 21:8; Revelation 6:2 (1st Seal)

2) War and rumors of war - Matthew 24:6,7; Mark 13:7,8; Luke 21:9,10; Revelation 6:3,4 (2nd Seal)

3) Famine - Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:5,6 (3rd Seal)

4) Disease, troubles and natural disasters - Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:7,8 (4th Seal)

NOTE: Numbers 1-4 are called the “beginning of sorrows”.

5) “Tribulation”, persecution and martyrdom of the saints - Matthew 24:9; Mark 13:9; Luke 21:12; Revelation 6:9-11 (5th Seal)

6) Signs in the heavens, specifically the darkening of the sun and moon (immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation) - Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:24,25; Luke 21:25,26; Revelation 6:12-14 (6th Seal)

7) Return of the Lord / Day of the Lord - Matthew 24:30,31; Mark 13:26,27; Luke 21:27,28; Revelation 6:17 (subsequent to the 6th seal, prior to 7th seal)

I find common ground with mid-tribulation, pre-tribulation, and post-tribulation rapture views.

I agree with the mid-tribulation rapture that the end of Revelation 6 is where the translation of living saints occurs, and is described in Revelation 7 as those who come out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION. But I do not believe this occurs in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week, but some time later at an unspecified point.

I agree with the post-tribulation rapture view in that I believe the rapture that occurs at the end of Revelation 6 is at the end of the Great Tribulation but prior to the Day of the Lord, which commences at this time.

I agree with the pre-tribulation rapture view in that I believe there is a distinction between Christ’s return for the Church, and His return to set up His kingdom, though these two events are both part of the “second coming” of Christ. I also agree that “God did not appoint us to wrath” and therefore the Church will NOT go through the wrath of God poured out on the earth. However, I believe, like the mid-tribulationalists, that this day of wrath begins after the sixth seal has run its course.

This view is commonly called the “pre-wrath” rapture. I believe it resolves the various problems each of the other views have in being reconciled with scripture.

The author addresses a “time-setting” problem for pre-trib and mid-trib views. The author argues that both of these views allow setting a date as to when the return of the Lord will occur. I agree. But so does the pre-trib view. How so?

Consider that some verses regarding the return of the Lord for the Church describe this event as happening suddenly and unexpectedly, “like a thief.” However, Christ uses this exact description for His return AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION in the Olivet Discourse.

Matthew 24:29-31, 36, 42-44
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other...
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only...
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

According to the pre-trib view, this coming of Christ is not the rapture of the Church because it comes after the great tribulation. Yet Christ says this event will happen suddenly, unexpectedly, and like a thief - ALL of the same reasons given by advocates of the pre-trib view AGAINST date setting.

However, if the Great Tribulation begins at the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week, and does not last for the entire remainder, but is “cut short” for the sake of the elect, then His return at the end of the great tribulation will be sudden and unexpected by those not continually watching and waiting for His return.

So, see, the mid-tribulation, pre-tribulation, and post-tribulation rapture views ALL have a problem with date setting. The pre-wrath view does not.

Very few mid-tribs around anymore, most have morphed into Rosenthal and Van Kampen's pre-wrath rapture camp.

From a post-tribber's perspective, their problem is the same as the pretribs, they both have two second comings.

The rapture of the pretribs and the prewrath's (and the older midtribs) amounts to a "first" second coming. Their "second" second coming identical to the singular second coming of the post-tribs occurring on "the last day."

On the occasion of her brother Lazarus' death, Martha, like all Jews of Jesus day, believed the resurrection would take place on the last day.

John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus confirmed Martha and the Jews belief correct three times in the sixth chapter of John, here's what he said in verse 39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Now look what you’ve done, true to your screen name, wmfights, you’ve got the three premill views, pretrib, prewrath, and post-trib in a fight. You knew your series would ocme to this some day didn’t you.

By the way, what does the “wm” part of screen name mean?