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To: Arthur McGowan

I thought the “Pope” was the infallible representative of Christ??

What else is not right within the catholic religion???


6 posted on 12/28/2014 9:14:42 PM PST by dadgum (Overjoyed to be the Pariah.)
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To: dadgum
Papal Infallibility has NOTHING to do with Global Warming or any other empirical or scientific subject matter.

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

13 posted on 12/28/2014 9:24:03 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: dadgum

Man, these modern Popes are real job-hoppers!
The last one, Pope Benny, complained of no chance of advancement ....
One quits, another one popes up. I understand the strongest candidate to replace Pope Frank is Ashton Kucher.
Hey, that’s a tall hat to fill, whoa!


14 posted on 12/28/2014 9:25:30 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: dadgum

The Pope would have to make his pronouncements on global warming ex cathedra to assert infallibility in this matter. He didn’t.

Yes, the Catholic Church has problems, and in my opinion doesn’t get this issue right as well as others. Do you know of a Church that gets all the issues right?


28 posted on 12/28/2014 9:43:25 PM PST by pleasenotcalifornia
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To: dadgum

Infallibility only applies when the Church does a teaching on an issue of doctrines related to faith and morals. The Pope can say whatever he wants about climate change, economics, etc and I as a regular Mass attending Catholic is free to give him the middle finger.


69 posted on 12/29/2014 5:24:26 AM PST by C19fan
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To: dadgum
What else is not right within the catholic religion???

A loaded question for sure!

82 posted on 12/29/2014 7:34:08 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: dadgum; pleasenotcalifornia; C19fan; tumblindice; ealgeone
I thought the “Pope” was the infallible representative of Christ?? What else is not right within the catholic religion???

While AGW is related to morals, as the more learned RCs may tell you, a Pope is not held as being infallible in all his laws, commands, statements, nor in his acts of state, as papal infallibility only is assured when the pope, who has "full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered" (CCC 882) - definitively speaks ex cathedra — that is, when in the exercise of his office as the presumed pastor and teacher of all Christians, a doctrine of faith or morals (Divinely Revealed Truth) as binding on the universal Church. It is also held that his (autocratic) ex cathedra teaching does not have to be ratified by the Church's in order to be infallible.

That is the highest level of RC teaching, being referred to as a Solemn definition, while it is also held that the bishops can also teach Christ's doctrine infallibly when in unity among themselves, and with the successor of Peter, they concur in one teaching as the one which must be definitively held.

Thus Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.

Such teaching mandates sacred assent (theological assent or the "assent of faith"), while ordinary assent (religious submission of will and of mind) is to be given to non-infallible teachings that are purposed to lead to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals, (CCC 892) Although they may contain errors, they are not supposed to be disputed nor rejected publicly (but such censures have no teeth).

These ordinary teachings on faith and morals are taught by the "ordinary magisterium." A sub category of ordinary prudential teaching on disciplinary matters, is seen inferred in Cardinal Ratzinger’s Donum Veritatis, and which commonly accepted by many theologians. (http://catholicism.org/the-three-levels-of-magisterial-teaching.html)

The lay theologians such as seen here or typical Catholic sites are not held as having any official teaching authority.

Yet while "No doctrine is understood as defined infallibly unless this is manifestly evident," - Code of Canon Law 749 http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2H.HTM how many infallible teachings there are, as well as what magisterial level others fall under (and thus what level of assent is mandated) is a matter of debate, as can be aspects of their meaning. There are RCs even here who reject aspects of Vatican two are being authentic RC teaching.

Of course, while Rome has infallibly defined herself as infallible, perpetual magisterial infallibility is an invention, a a novelty in the light of Scripture, which never exampled it, nor required it, but support for it is extrapolated out of the premise that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for determination and assurance of Truth (including writings and men being of God) and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith, and authority. (Jn. 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:13; Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16)

And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus those who dissent from the latter are in rebellion to God.

Cardinal Avery Dulles imagines,

"People cannot discover the contents of revelation by their unaided powers of reason and observation. They have to be told by people who have received in from on high. " - Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ, “Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith,” p. 72; http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/08/magisterial-cat-and-mouse-game.html

Likewise the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"..the believer cannot believe in the Bible nor find in it the object of his faith until he has previously made an act of faith in the intermediary authorities..." - Catholic Encyclopedia>Tradition and Living Magisterium; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

Therefore it is also imagined,

“Christians have never gone to Scripture for proof of their doctrines until there was actual need, from the pressure of controversy...” — Letter to the Rev. E. B. Pusey" contained in Newman's "Difficulties of Anglicans" Volume II, Dignity of Mary; http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/newman-mary.asp

For rather than being the supreme assuredly infallible standard, then Scripture is subjugated to being a servant to support its autocratic Roman master, which imagines it owes its authority to, while "Catholic doctrine, as authoritatively proposed by the Church, should be held as the supreme law." (Providentissimus Deus)

It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors. - VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906

However, the actual historical facts are that rather than an infallible magisterial office being essential in order to correctly discover the contents of revelation, and have assurance of what is of God, souls correctly discerned both men and writings of God as being so long before a church of Rome would presume assured perpetual magisterial infallibility of office.

And rather than Scripture being indebted to the church for its claim to authority, and that being the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture meaning that such it, the contrary is true as the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of promises of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34)

And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.) H

110 posted on 12/29/2014 5:31:13 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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