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To: roamer_1; redleghunter; Iscool; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212
QUOTE: "The wedding feast is held in heaven while the bowls/vials are being poured out. This is the wrath that we are promised to avoid."

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.

1. These verses do not specifically say who the bride is or who is called to the marriage supper.
2. These verses do not indicate where the supper occurs, or when
3. These verses do not necessarily require the immediate eating before the return of the King of Kings

A. To determine that the Church is the Bride has some merit, as mentioned above, but John's writings, a mere 2 chapters later, directly contradicts that view:

Rev 21:9 "...Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

B. Jesus returns not with his Church, but rather with his Angel Army, to GET his Church!
Rev 21:14 "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
It is interesting to note that in Rev 15:6 "...seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles." .
It is also interesting to note that in Matthew 24:30 is seen the "...Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet..."
Furthermore, 2 Thess 1:7 reads "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels"
and Matt 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him..."
Finally, Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Can you provide similar scripture that proves the "armies which were in Heaven" include the resurrected saved, other than the timeline of the assumed pre-trib rapture?

Finally, being "...called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb..." of verse 9 is followed by the "...supper of the great God..." of Rev 19:17, the same chapter! Coincidence?

85 posted on 01/01/2015 2:43:09 PM PST by jimmyray
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To: jimmyray
2 Thess 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

This passage makes clear that the recompence to those who trouble us, our rest, Jesus being glorified in us, and our admiring of him, all happen on THE SAME DAY! Our rest comes "...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels.", on THAT DAY!

This is the same day we are resurrected, referred to in John 6:44 "44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How could it not be any more obvious?

86 posted on 01/01/2015 2:58:06 PM PST by jimmyray
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To: jimmyray
B. Jesus returns not with his Church, but rather with his Angel Army, to GET his Church!

And then what happens after Jesus gets his church???

89 posted on 01/01/2015 11:07:31 PM PST by Iscool
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To: jimmyray; redleghunter; Iscool; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212
1. These verses do not specifically say who the bride is or who is called to the marriage supper.

If one does not know who the Bride is by the time one reaches the end of the Tanakh, then knowing who the Bride is by Revelation is impossible - Hence your following comment (A.)...

2. These verses do not indicate where the supper occurs, or when

Not true. The when is explicit - The time IS come... It does not draw nigh... it has not soon passed. The time is in the NOW.
As to the where: If the Roman church had not messed with the original images, you would know where with certainty... It is a Hebrew wedding, not a Roman one - And the ancient Hebrew wedding tells it perfectly:

Once the marriage contract is signed, and the dowry given to the bride,
The groom goes away for a long while to prepare a place for her, attached to his father's house.
After many days (a year, maybe two), The father tells the groom when the place is made well enough for his bride, and he is given permission to go get her.
The groom comes at an unexpected time and is suddenly announced by a trumpet call, and much clamor by his groomsmen,
announcing his coming and going ahead of him with lamps held high on long poles.
The bride and her bridesmaids are by now awaiting his coming, ready for the event...
The bride is 'snatched away' from her fathers house by the groom, and carried off to his father's house, where they will enter the bedchamber and stay there for a whole week.
The bridesmaids light their lamps, and join the groomsmen, announcing the groom's coming through the town, and leading the way to the feast.
The wedding feast takes place at the father's house, at the father's expense, for the entirety of the nuptial week, under lock and key, guarded, and only invited guests are allowed... All must attend wearing white linens.

OF COURSE the 'where' is in the Father's House, where Yeshua went to prepare a place for us.

A. To determine that the Church is the Bride has some merit, as mentioned above, but John's writings, a mere 2 chapters later, directly contradicts that view:

Metaphor. Jerusalem is about people, not buildings. The metaphor is used often elsewhere.

B. Jesus returns not with his Church, but rather with his Angel Army, to GET his Church!

Doesn't make sense. We are not made for the wrath, and will escape it, as promised... And Jacob will be saved out of it. According to your timeline, the wrath of YHWH is poured out while we are still here.

He is coming to Earth to take it back. It is His possession. And once he has taken it back (with all His saints in tow), then comes the Kingdom, which begins with a thousand year reign, and of which there is no end.

As to your proofs: There are two types of survivor: those raptured and attending the feast in heaven, and those who make it through the trib, and the wrath - Pick accordingly in your proofs.

Can you provide similar scripture that proves the "armies which were in Heaven" include the resurrected saved, other than the timeline of the assumed pre-trib rapture?

Well, sure... Jude comes to mind. I'll go see if I can find sommore...

"...supper of the great God..." of Rev 19:17, the same chapter! Coincidence?

Uh, no. That is calling the birds to the carnage of the battlefield.

90 posted on 01/02/2015 6:32:09 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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