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To: blue-duncan; jimmyray; wmfights
From part 23 of this series:

The nature of the tribulation as revealed in Scripture constitutes, therefore, an important argument supporting the teaching that the church will not go through the tribulation. It has been shown that a literal interpretation of the tribulation does not produce any evidence that the church will be in this period. Important passages such as Deuteronomy 4:29-30; Jeremiah 30:4-11; Daniel 9:24-27; 12:1 ; Matthew 24:15-31; Revelation 4-19 ; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 5:4-9 do not indicate that the church will be in the tribulation period. It has been shown that the purpose of the tribulation is to purge and judge Israel and to punish and destroy Gentile power. In neither aspect is the church the object of the events of the period. In addition to these general arguments, the Scriptures also indicate that the believer in this present age will be kept from the time of wrath (1 Thess 1:9-10; 5:4-10 ; 2 Pet 2:6-9; Rev 3:10). Taken as a whole, the study of the tribulation as revealed in Scripture does not afford any support to a posttribulational translation of the saints.

Also, in the current article Walvoord makes the point:

The Day of the Lord as presented in the Old and New Testament includes rather than follows the tremendous events of the tribulation period. There seems some evidence that the Day of the Lord begins at once at the time of the translation of the church (cf. 1 Thess 5:1-9). The same event which translates the church begins the Day of the Lord. The events of the Day of the Lord begin thereafter to unfold: first the preparatory period, the first half of Daniel’s last seven years of Israel’s program preceding the second advent—the revelation of the man of sin, the formation of the revived Roman empire, finally reaching the stage of worldwide government, possibly as the last half of the period begins. Then there is the outpouring of judgments from on high, the seals of Revelation are broken, the trumpets of judgment sound, and the bowls of the wrath of God are poured out. The climactic event is the second coming of Christ to establish His kingdom, and the millennial age continuing the Day of the Lord is brought into being.

38 posted on 12/28/2014 5:33:12 PM PST by wmfights
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To: wmfights
Quote: The Day of the Lord as presented in the Old and New Testament includes rather than follows the tremendous events of the tribulation period. There seems some evidence that the Day of the Lord begins at once at the time of the translation of the church (cf. 1 Thess 5:1-9)

The pre-trib dispensationalist likes to assert the "Day of the Lord" is a long period of time, but in the reference quote above, it is a single day! To wit:

1 Thess 5:"2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Thieve don't break in and stay for 7 years, nor do women stay in labor for 7 years. It is sudden, immediate and swift.

Kinda like the Flood! Matt 24:" 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Also note, it is the UNBELIEVER who is taken away!

Rev 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usf from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

The Sixth Seal Initiates the Day of the Lord, it is not a continuation of it as Walvoord asserts!

This sounds an aweful lot like Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.


Study the Bible, not Walvoord!

40 posted on 12/28/2014 5:58:35 PM PST by jimmyray
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To: wmfights
QUOTE: "Important passages such as ... Matthew 24:15-31; Revelation 4-19 ; 1 Thess 5:4-9 do not indicate that the church will be in the tribulation period.

Only because it has been explained away!

Matt 24 is a record of Jesus' discourse with his BELIEVING disciples who happen to be Jewish. In verse 9 he states "...you will be hated by all nations because of me", the "you" refers to believers. Then in verse 15, 20, 23, 25 he uses the pronoun "you" again. Why in verse 9 is the you believers, and in 15, 20, 23 and 25 it is not?

Revelation 4-19 covers the Tribulation period, and makes references to those who "hold fast their testimony about Jesus" (12:17) "have the seal of God on their foreheads" (9:4) "saints" (13:7&10). And by the way, "the church" is not mentioned in Revelation at all!!!

1 Thess 5:4-9 refers to our not being "...in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." This follows verse 2 "...for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly..." If we won't be surprised by the Day of the Lord, it is NOT because we are not here, rather, it is because we know what to look for!

Incidentally, the informal fallcy argumentum ex silentio is not a good way to build one's theology!

41 posted on 12/28/2014 6:25:12 PM PST by jimmyray
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To: wmfights

....”the purpose of the tribulation is to purge and judge Israel and to punish and destroy Gentile power”.....

This is also my understanding.....

BTW Interesting thread.


50 posted on 12/29/2014 1:30:32 AM PST by caww
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To: wmfights

Never read 1 Thessalonians without 2 Thessalonians. The second book is written specifically for those worried about the return.


54 posted on 12/29/2014 1:53:49 AM PST by huldah1776
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