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To: Mr Rogers
When the Apostles used presbutero (elder) and NOT hiereus (priest), there was a reason. The elders were not priests. They were never, ever referred to as priests by the Apostles. To take a meaning from an English word which was born out of Roman Catholic theology and inject it into a word which had no such meaning to the Apostles is at best ignorance and at worst deliberate dishonesty.

Again, you are ignorant of the history of the term priest and its usage in English. Priest/preost was not born out of Catholic theology of the sacerdotal nature of the presbyterate. It was simply the Old English rendering of presbyter and was originally used exclusively for this office. Its original meaning was not that of a sacrificial officer, i.e. hiereus. The term for this was sacerd. As an example, from the Wessex Gospel of Luke from the 10th century.:

1:5 On Herodes dagum, Iudéa cyniges, wæs sum sacerd on naman Zacharias, of Abian túne: his wíf wæs of Aárones dohtrum, and hyre nama wæs Elizabeth.

In the days of Herod, King of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah of the priestly division of Abijah; his wife was from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.

It is indeed unfortunate the two terms became conflated into the one English word but this was the result of natural linguistic development, not a conspiracy by Rome. In Latin, the language of Rome, these two terms have remained distinct. The New Testament office of presbyter has continued to exist in the Catholic Church. In English this office is known by the term priest/preost, a usage that predates the conflation of the terms for presbuteros and hiereus.
36 posted on 12/17/2014 8:10:44 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

“Again, you are ignorant of the history of the term priest and its usage in English.”

No, I am not. It was used for Catholic “priests”. The meaning is someone who did what the Catholic priest does, including offer sacrifices. What it meant in Old English is irrelevant, since none of us use Old English now.

Does the New Testament, as delivered by the Apostles, warrant “priests” - hiereus - in the Church? The answer is obviously NO.

So what is the role envisioned by the Apostles for the elders - the presbutero?

Contrary to the article, this passage:

“13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.”

does NOT suggest they administered sacraments, with all the theological baggage that word includes. It means the elders - plural - would go and pray for the sick members. This has nothing to do with sacramental theology.

It is important to be accurate in translating the Word of God. Translating “presbutero” as “priest” can only be deliberate distortion. It is utterly unjustified linguistically. That is why Tyndale, in 1526, translated it correctly:

“Is there any man diseased among you? Let him call for the seniors of the congregation, and let them pray over him, and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.”

That is a good Greek to English translation. There is no justification for translating “presbutero” as priest. Doing so is deceptive. It mangles the Greek to impose a theology the Apostles did not share.


41 posted on 12/17/2014 9:49:21 PM PST by Mr Rogers (Can you remember what America was like in 2004?)
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