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Jesus and NOT Simon is the “rock” upon which Jesus said he was founding his Church?

Riiiiight. Jesus renamed Simon with the new name of “ROCK” just to emphasize that by “rock” he DIDN’T intend to refer to SIMON.

Very clever, Jesus was.

Just as he said we must EAT his body and DRINK his blood—in order to make clear to us that he DIDN’T want us to eat his body and drink his blood.

And they called REAGAN the “Great Communicator.”

Jesus is a perfectly clear communicator. However, as His audience in John 6 demonstrates, the problem lies with those who come to Him with predetermined ideas of what is possible. He clearly tells them that if they come to Him, they will not hunger, and if they believe on Him, they will not thirst, and that what He teaches them about eating His flesh and drinking His blood is a spiritual teaching, not a about the flesh, but about believing in Him, in His words.

But despite all these obvious guard rails against misinterpretation, His audience can only think in crude mateialistic terms. Recall how earlier in the chapter, when He had fed them, He slipped away from them, when He perceived they were going to try and make Him king by force. And when they did track Him down, He chides them for seeking Him only because He fed them. Not even the miracles got through to them. They were only thinking in fleshly terms.

So when He tells them about eating His flesh and drinking His blood, even though He makes it blazingly clear it is a spiritual and not a fleshly thing of which He speaks, they don't get it. His communication cannot be faulted. But the spiritual deadness of His listeners led them to their own false conclusions.

As for Peter and the Rock controversy. who do you suppose is at fault for Augustine thinking like we evangelicals do? Again, one cannot fault Jesus. But if a particular denomination has staked it's entire claim to authority on a spurious list of popes, in combination with a novel doctrine of transmissible Petrine supremacy, and they come to this passage a few centuries later, it is not at all surprising they would find in it what they are looking for. Psychologically, this is called confirmation bias. Fortunately for us, nearer to the beginnings of Christianity that misconception was not so deeply entrenched, which is doubtless why Augustine, not having the Roman party spirit, was able to see objectively that Jesus made the distinction he did between Rocky and the Rock for good and wholesome purpose.

Or did you not know that names are often given to point us higher than ourselves? What, for example, does Johnathan mean, but "gift of God?" But not everyone so named acts accordingly. But it is still a good name to have, because it reminds the bearer of his higher calling. And what if some mother names her son "Jesus," because she wants him to aspire to godliness? Is that wrong? Is it not clear that no mortal imitator of Jesus actually has to actually be Jesus to receive that name? And if Jesus calls Peter Rocky, does that necessarily mean He intends Peter to become the Rock upon which the full weight of the Ecclesia must rest? Or could He simply be pointing both Peter and us to Christ the Rock, and our need to have faith in Him, as exampled by Peter?

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Peter 2:7-8 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, (8) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

No, if the not-so-Roman patristic writers, including Augustine, were able to get this right, and are joined by both Peter and Paul in seeing Jesus as the Rock, then there is no way Jesus can be faulted as a communicator, simply because some newer kids on the block are unwilling to remember these simple and easily accessible things. To paraphrase the Bard, the fault is not in our Savior, but in ourselves.

Peace,

SR

Riiiiight. Jesus renamed Simon with the new name of “ROCK” just to emphasize that by “rock” he DIDN’T intend to refer to SIMON.

I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” Luke 7:28

John didn't get a new name and Jesus says he is greater than anyone born of woman....that would include Mary as well.

Peter says that the *Petra* is Christ.

Right here in the epistle HE wrote, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Your argument is with HIM, telling the Holy Spirit He was wrong about who *petra* is. Peter – rock

Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm

Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.

Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.

There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.

Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.

http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm

Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm

1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.

As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”

and

“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.”

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4073.htm

>>Very clever, Jesus was.<<

Yes He was!! He knew that those Jews who took Him to mean literal blood that they would leave. He knew they were not His to begin with and that they wouldn't understand the spiritual meaning of His words.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The Jews knew it would be breaking the law to eat blood but didn't understand that Jesus was not talking about the physical blood. Jesus knew they would leave. On the other hand those who were pagan would not be offended by the eating of the blood of their god as that was a custom with them anyway. So they would go right along with the idea of eating the physical blood. Only those who understood that He was speaking of the Spiritual would be His true followers. It actually isn't called clever it's "all knowing".

>>Just as he said we must EAT his body and DRINK his blood—in order to make clear to us that he DIDN’T want us to eat his body and drink his blood.<<

And then explained to those who stayed but understood that those carnal minds without the Holy Spirit would not understand.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Those "without the Spirit do not accept the things that come from the Spirit" so the carnal Jews would not understand and the pagans would simply continue eating the blood of who they perceived as their god. The Catholic Church simply adopted the pagan perspective as they did many other pagan beliefs.

Very clever, Jesus was.

That is the comicality of the Protestant belief system: 80% of the material in the Gospels does not mean what it says.