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To: annalex
>The significance of the perfect tense means an action was completed in the past but with results existing in the present time(in relation to the speaker/writer).<

The suffix -μενος, -μενη, -μενο (here in plural, -μενα) simply means it the action of the preceding verb is completed. When it is completed is controlled by the verb εἰμί. In this case we have εσται, future tense, "will-be" (I insert a hyphen because in Greek that's one word). So "εσται δεδεμένα" means "will-be bound", etc.

You can translate "shall have been bound" if you want to overcomplicate the text. Most readers of English understand that "shall be bound" does not mean "shall be being bound again and again", -- the action of binding will be complete. Young's literal has it even "shall be having been bound", which is simply incorrect English grammar.

Shall have been is the correct way to interpret the perfect tense. Sorry you feel that "over complicates" things. Also,I did not say it would be bound over and over again. That's your point...not mine. You need to go and re-read how the perfect tense in Greek works. Young's translation, while not smooth, does capture what the perfect tense is about.

So on that part you are correct: the heavenly binding and loosing is complete, finished binding and loosing, not continuous one (which in Greek would use the suffix -ομαι, -εται).

I'm glad you recognize this.

You are wrong about "results existing in the present time". The future tense of εσται indicates that the result will be complete in the future. This is also consistent with the conditional εαν. All the translations agree on that part

No...all the translations do not agree on that part.

NASB, which is the most literal of the translations records the verse as:

Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Again, go research the perfect tense. While it may not come across in the printed word, it is up to the expositor to bring out the meaning of the tense of the verbs and participles.

I understand that when we talk about heaven time considerations are somewhat blurred, -- there is no time for God, -- but the meaning here is clear: the Church (or, at least, the disciples present) may bind and loose in the future, and whatever decision they make on earth will be in heaven.

You might want to re-think the part I've bolded. That's a pretty open ended statement you've made there and I'm pretty sure it isn't how it's supposed to work.

For example, if the church says it's ok for women to be priests, I don't think Heaven would agree as it contradicts the Word....but that's never stopped catholicism before.

4,814 posted on 01/02/2015 3:57:25 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Well done. It seems that for Catholics the need to put man between themselves and God is strong.


4,870 posted on 01/03/2015 5:03:24 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: ealgeone
NASB, which is the most literal of the translations records the verse as:
Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

NASB also says "shall"

For example, if the church says it's ok for women to be priests, I don't think Heaven would agree as it contradicts the Word

Yes, that is a good example that helps us understand the teaching of the Church better. It is true that the bind-and-loose passages formally allow for that possibility: that the Church makes up an erroneous doctrine and the Heaven will be in a quandary: either violate this promise about binding and loosing the error in heaven, or overlook the error and bless it as truth.

The answer is that the Church simply is not going to make such decision, because the Holy Spirit leads her. Modern popes, especially, like to make this point (I paraphrase): "you want me to allow contraception? -- I cannot do that... You want me to allow women priests? -- I cannot do that".

The fact that the Catholic Church is inerrant is one corollary of these passages.

4,992 posted on 01/04/2015 1:58:28 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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