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To: verga; CynicalBear; aMorePerfectUnion; Syncro; WVKayaker; imardmd1; Elsie; metmom; redleghunter; ...
Just as I have asked a number of professed ex-Catholics that make the erroneous claim that Catholic worship Mary: Who taught you that? I want to know if some Catholic told them a lie

I am an ex catholic myself and I went to Catholic grade school at St Mary's parish and catholic high school at St James High School, in Grand Forks, North Dakota, from 1954 to 1966, so you can see it has been a ton of years ago. I cannot recall if any of them ever told me that Mary was divine. I simply do not remember. They did, however, teach us to pray to Mary, like the rosary, or after embarrassing myself in the confessional, so does the fact that we were taught to pray to her, make her divine? I don't know, but of course, I don't do that now. I always enjoy our catholic high school class reunions. There are 2 others, like me, and we have developed some friendly rivalries over the years, with some of the class mates we keep in touch with occasionally. We have fun talking about doctrine. The other two guys are full time preachers. Me? I spent 20 years in the USAF and 25 years in CDCR, at San Quentin, and Solano at Vacaville, CA. BTW, my degree was in air traffic control, of which I was real darned good at, even if I do say so myself. Later bro.

4,225 posted on 12/30/2014 7:58:29 PM PST by Mark17 (So gracious and tender was He. I claimed Him that day as my savior, this stranger of Galilee)
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To: Mark17
They did, however, teach us to pray to Mary, like the rosary, or after embarrassing myself in the confessional, so does the fact that we were taught to pray to her, make her divine?

It attributes to her the uniquely Divine position of being the object of prayer to Heaven, which always directly to God in the over 200 prayers in the Bible which God provided for us, and thus ascribes to her the uniquely Divine ability of hearing virtually infinite amounts of prayer addressed to her.

The Scriptures do not sanction religiously bowing down to any statue in supplication, and the Lord's instructions on who to pray to was "our Father who art in Heaven," not "our Mother", the former being what the Spirit also cries to, "Abba, Father," Gal. 4:6; not "Mama, Mother." The fact that the Lord Jesus is prayed to is a testament to His Deity, and He alone is set forth as the only Heavenly intercessor btwn God and man (1Tim. 2:5).

In addition, note that many Catholic Marian attributions much parallel even that of Christ:

For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,

Mary was a holy, virtuous instrument of God, but of whom Scripture says relatively little, while holy fear ought to restrain ascribing positions, honor, glory and powers to a mortal that God has not revealed as given to them, and or are only revealed as being possessed by God Himself. But like as the Israelites made an instrument of God an object of worship, (Num. 21:8,9; 2Kg. 18:4) Catholics have magnified Mary far beyond what is written and warranted and even allowed, based on what is in Scripture.

In addition, although (technically) Mary is not to be worshiped in the same sense that God is worshiped, yet the distinctions between devotion to Mary and the worship of God are quite fine, and much due to the psychological appeal of a heavenly mother (especially among those for whom Scripture is not supreme), then the historical practice of Catholics has been to exalt Mary above that which is written. As the Catholic Encyclopedia states, "By the sixteenth century, as evidenced by the spiritual struggles of the Reformers, the image of Mary had largely eclipsed the centrality of Jesus Christ in the life of believers." (Robert C. Broderick, ed., The Catholic Encyclopedia, revised and updated; NY: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987, pp.32,33)

The practice of praying to departed saints and Mary was one that developed, helped by pagan influences, for Scripture provides no example of any believer praying to anyone in Heaven by the Lord, and reveals that doing otherwise was a practice of pagans, including to the “Queen of Heaven.” (Jer. 44:17,18,19,25). The Catholic Encyclopedia admits that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion, “was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary) Yet, as expected, it imagines this practice came from the apostles and NT church, but which never exampled or instructed it, and instead showed that the believer has immediate access to God in the Divine Christ, (Heb. 10:19), who is the all sufficient and immediate intercessor between God (the Father) and man. (Heb. 2:17,18; 4:15,16) To the glory of God

4,256 posted on 12/31/2014 4:13:08 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Mark17

Thank you for being the only ex-Catholic to answer, and to do so with out being insulting.


4,262 posted on 12/31/2014 4:39:09 AM PST by verga
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