Posted on 12/11/2014 2:01:01 PM PST by NYer
The date isn't important.
Ones salvation doesn't hang on when one celebrates, or if one celebrates, a certain date of Jesus' birth or crucifixion.
For centuries, believers celebrated what Christ did, without knowing the proper dates.
We still do so today.
Taoists don’t have to worry about such frivolities.
Embrace the Sukkot? lol
Paul commended the Bereans because they did their own research to find out if what he said is true.
No matter what I provide for sources, no one will be influenced by my providing them, and it would only lead to an endless series of my providing evidence that many would reject.
I would rather do what Paul did. Anyone serious about knowing the truth will do their own research - and then come to their own conclusions based on that research. If they do it themselves, they will have reason to change an opinion.
For almost 50 years of ministry, one of my main focus points is to encourage believers to not accept anything because some man says it, but to “search the scriptures” for themselves. Few Christians get their knowledge directly from scripture or personal study, but their pastor, Sunday school teacher, or a book or video. Accordingly, I don’t want anyone to accept anything I say, but to do their own research.
One of the prime reasons for the spiritual poverty of so many who claim to be Christians is that all their knowledge is second hand (pre-digested - like baby food) and very little is first hand study of scripture and personal relationship with the Lord and seeking Him.....not the “meat of the word.”
Another matter is scripture itself tells us to “not go beyond what is written....” Where scripture is silent, we can only surmise - and if it is not important enough to be addressed directly by scripture, it’s not something we should focus on or argue about. We should major in the major issues, not peripheral ones........like the precise date of Christmas.....
The Catholic Church has never taught that Christ’s birthday was December 25th.
Never. The census wasn’t held during the winter months.
Try again.
So I got that going for me...
Exactly. It is the celebration of His birth, not His birthday.
Great. More: It is a mitzvah to wave the lulav on each of the first seven days of Sukkot. The proper time is in the morning—either before the Morning Service or during the service immediately before the Hallel. A meditation (found in the Siddur) is recited prior to the blessing (this has many kabbalistic secrets concealed within it).
Or perhaps not until 380 AD
EDICT OF INTOLERANCE
379 The Emperor Theodosius. Gratian appointed a Spanish general named Theodosius to replace Valens as Emperor of the East (19 January). His parents were Nicenes, which is not surprising since Bishop Hosius had great influence in Spain. Theodosius led a successful campaign against the Visigoths, forced them to sue for peace, and proceeded to Thessalonica (a city in northeastern Greece) at the end of the year. There he became seriously ill, and believing he was about to die, he was baptized by the Nicene Bishop Ascholius. While he was recuperating from his illness, he was told that all the churches farther to the East, with the exception of Jerusalem, were in the hands of “Arians”. Upon hearing this, “Theodosius enacted a law at Thessalonica [27 February 380], which he caused to be published at Constantinople, well knowing that it would speedily become public to all the other cities, if issued from that city, which is as a citadel of the whole empire.” [Sozomen VII, ii & iv]
Edict of 380
It is our desire that all the various nation which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue to the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter, as it has been preserved by faithful tradition and which is now professed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness. According to the apostolic teaching and the doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe in the one deity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title Catholic Christians; but as for the others, since in our judgment they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give their conventicles the name of churches. They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of divine condemnation, and second, the punishment that our authority, in accordance with the will of heaven, shall decide to inflict. [Theodosian Code XVI.1.2; and Sozomen, VII, iv]
As soon as I saw this edict, I realized it was one of the largest missing pieces, the first authoritative definition of Catholicism. Thus 27 February 380 is the birth date of the Catholic Church; despite all claims to the contrary, it did not exist prior to that time. Like the edict itself, church historians claim longevity for the Church retroactively, by pointing back to the Council of Nicea and the Apostle Peter.
By this edict, Theodosius reversed the policy of his predecessors, from tolerance to intolerance of religious diversity. The last sentence was a declaration of war that pre-justified religious persecution as the will of God. Here, then, is the original charter of the inquisitions, the crusades, and the burning of heretics all over Europe. The next time we see tolerance of religious diversity proclaimed as official state policy is 1300 years later, in Pennsylvania.
The Trinitarian formula imposed by the Edict of 380 is not the Nicene Creed of 325; it is the Athanasian Creed of 362. Thus, overnight, Theodosius made Athanasian heresy orthodox and the current orthodox faith “Arian” heresy.
the above excerpted from: History of the State Church of the Roman Empire at http://www.bswett.com/1998-05Church300.html
Actually, it was 364 AD, the council of Lao Dicea that defines the birth of the present day Roman church.
If December 25th was accepted as the birthday of Christ in the Julian Calendar why not celebrate it on that day after 1582? The Gregorian calendar omitted ten days to compensate for the miscalculated (by minutes) solar year and return the seasons (equinoxes and solstices) to better harmonize with New Years Day. Regardless, If they accepted and celebrated December 25 we can too (though folks alive then would have thought of that day as Dec 15)
To the obedient, the date is obvious, and not in question.
There is no commandment to celebrate his birth, but his birth was on a commanded feast day anyway: Sukkot.
What you brought up in your post was your salvation, i.e. entering into Yehova’s rest. Willful Disobedience is the definite disqualifier for that.
That matters!
.
Actually the Orthodox Church celebrates the Feast of the Nativity on December 25th.
Those on the Old (Julian) Calendar — Russia, Serbia, Georgia, Jerusalem — just happen to have the Julian December 25th coincide with the civil and Gregorian calendars’ January 7th — for now — the drift caused by the Gregorian calendar skipping leap years at the beginning of some centuries will push it to January 8th eventually.
Those on the New “Reformed Julian” Calendar (which coincided with the Gregorian until, should the Lord tarry, the 26th century when it will diverge, becoming more astronomically accurate, again absent intervening calendar reforms) celebrate on December 25th on that calendar, which coincides with December 25th on the civil and Gregorian calendars.
“There is no mention in this article about the adoption of the Julian calendar or the later change to the Gregorian calendar.”
It’s irrelevant actually. Because the Julian calendar was introduced in 46 BC. Since the Julian calendar is only .002% off per year compared to its Gregorian replacement, in Anno Domini when Jesus was born, the difference was about 8 hours compared to the Gregorian calendar, if that calendar was used in its place.
So do you believe Christ was crucified on Friday and raised on Sunday?
Oh, really? Sole custodian of Christian tradition?
[:-)===== (Orthodox monastic smiley.)
Of course, I guess it might depend on how you use the word "Catholic" -- but you seem to be crediting the Latins' claim to the name by attaching it to the forces at Lepanto and Vienna.
You might also want to show a little gratitude for the Orthodox who fell on the Field of Kosovo, those who fought the long defeat to keep the Roman Empire, eventually dwindled to a city state, alive until 1453, and to Vlad Tepes for turning back the armies of Mehmet the Conqueror, or much of Europe outside the Balkans would have fallen in the 15th century.
I have taught many of these objections over the years, but it’s a moot point. Jesus’ death and resurrection is what’s important, not His birthday.
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