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To: CynicalBear; Mrs. Don-o
Yes?? Then why do Catholics make graven images and bow down to them? It doesn’t say “bow down to them AND serve them” it says “bow down to them OR serve them”. Catholics DO make graven images and they DO bow down to them in direct disobedience of the second commandment.

And based on the many prayers easily found in a google search addressed to Mary, it's clear that many of them DO serve her.

One such example.....

http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

My Queen, My Mother, I offer myself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee, I offer thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve.

Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession. Amen.

I'd make a great prayer to GOD.

To Mary, not so much.

Nobody can say that that's not serving her, or worshiping her for that matter.

2,212 posted on 12/16/2014 3:58:22 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom
Jesus honored His mother, as commanded by the Scriptures, "Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee" (Exodus 20:12). And Paul points out: "Honor thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)" (Ephesians 6:2).

The Scriptures say Mary was "highly favored" (obviously, as she was chosen for this work: to be the instrument through which the Messiah would be born). But those who believe in Christ and accept Him as Savior are ALSO chosen, and James exhorts us to also, perform good works, not as a condition of Salvation, but so that others may come to know Him, through us. We are instruments of God's hands, feet, tongues, and body until Christ's return.

At Christ's death, He did not elevate Mary to any position; He only asked that John the Disciple care for her as he would his own mother. And that was an honorable thing to do.

We read in Matthew no devotion or prayer being uttered to His mother or that others should practice such:

Matthew 12:

46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

As to idols and graven images, and the practice of worshipping or praying to them, these things have always been detestable to God. We have warnings as well as explanations against doing so replete in the Scriptures, including Exodus, Kings, Isaiah, and elsewhere in the Old Testament. As to those in the New Testament, Paul is troubled when he sees the idols and says, in part (Acts 17):

29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
Repent from what? Of sin? Yes. But I believe he was also referring to the practice of idol worshipping. The Jews had a lengthy history of this practice and were well acquainted with what happened to their ancestors who engaged in these pagan practices.
2,214 posted on 12/16/2014 6:29:16 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: metmom
"Nobody can say that that's not serving her, or worshiping her for that matter."

Sure we can.

If all this were directed to Mary alone, Mary tour court, it would be idolatry and would be damnable. It would be a disordered love for her, and a disordered honor, worship of some goddess or half-goddess.

But Catholics see Mary's honor as an entirely derivative thing, in the same way that the light of the moon is entirely derived from the sun. You may not see it this way, yourself, but you will understand us, anyway, more accurately if you see this Mary thing as we see it: not as idolatry but as a glory envisioned by God Himself (Rev 12) and thus an appropriate honor for the mother of our King. If HE gives this honor, it is honorable: "Honor thy father and thy mother --- and wouldn't Jesus fulfill this commandment to a superlative degree?

She who was nothing, she who was but dust. What HE has done for His lowly handmaid!

For God will make you glorious in heaven, metmom, and me too I pray ---


But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the mind of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

2,234 posted on 12/16/2014 10:58:23 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Nor has entered into the mind of man, what God has prepared for those who love Him." - 1 Cor 2:9)
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