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What in the world do you make of THIS?

Posted on 12/07/2014 4:30:17 AM PST by wheat_grinder

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Question:  Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

"Answer:  Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."

John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936), vol. 1, P. 51.

"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."

Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.

"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?

"Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'

James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."

Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?

"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: sabbatarianism; sda; seventhdayadventist
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To: ravenwolf

Either your math is off or you were taken in by that charlatan Zola or his disciples.


61 posted on 12/07/2014 10:57:01 AM PST by Oratam
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To: wheat_grinder; Campion; the_daug; NYer

What do I make of this: Someone wanting to raise a ruckus about something just to raise a ruckus.

Christians began holding services on the first day of the week (Sunday) because of that is the day that Jesus, their and for me, my Saviour, arose from the dead as he had said. And I remember being taught that in Sunday School as a child 60+ years ago.

Thus time to turn the heat off under the “tempest teapot” on this one.


62 posted on 12/07/2014 11:00:25 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Oratam

Either your math is off or you were taken in by that charlatan Zola or his disciples.


Do you mean they are the ones who wrote the Bible?

That must be what it is then because I did not have to do any math by reading the Bible.


63 posted on 12/07/2014 11:20:55 AM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: GreyFriar

You may consider it a “ruckus” over nothing but I consider the ten commandments a fairly important document.


64 posted on 12/07/2014 12:19:32 PM PST by wheat_grinder
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To: wheat_grinder

What I consider a ruckus is the use of such a topic to cause gratuitous attacks on Catholics and Protestants that result in discord and rancor, some of which showed up within the first couple of dozen posts of the thread. Folks who delight in making attacks and not doing sensible discussion.


65 posted on 12/07/2014 12:35:55 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GreyFriar

Just because some view this topic as a means to further agendas and not discuss the merits of the information does not mean the topic should not be broached. I try to ignore attacks and stick with serious discussion of which there is much on this board.


66 posted on 12/07/2014 12:57:25 PM PST by wheat_grinder
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To: wheat_grinder

Are there not references to every day being holy?


67 posted on 12/07/2014 1:11:09 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: wheat_grinder
"Yes they did. They were called the 7th day and the 1st day..... Greedy money changers and selling in the temple is what caused Christ to drive them out."

Research good.

Legalism bad.

Legalism and corruption are what Christ cleansed from the temple. Not greed - which is mentioned in none of the gospel accounts. (Don't fall prey to the mis-teachings of the Left. Christ is a free market Man.)

You obviously enjoy specifics: what specifically is listed as the marketed products Christ drove out by whip?

Household items maybe, pots, pans, Paula Dean knives? No, that wasn't it.

Ham sandwiches, beer, popcorn, a pack of smokes? Nope.

Hymnals, loin-girding belts, Herod bobble-heads? Again, no.

It was sacrificially 'clean' animals - sheep, oxen, doves. A dark convenience for the hip worshiper on-the-go. The vendors were in cahoots with temple bigs - or they would not have been there.

They were essentially selling salvation. Which is kinduva no-no already. But hawking salvation in the presence of the Savior?... they were fortunate He used a whip.

To both the temple authorities and the temple-goers, the act of sin-cleansing had devolved into a legally-correct but faithless schedule.

That has to be understood. Or you won't understand why Christ acted as He did.

Consider why He called them 'thieves'.

Again, not because of 'greedy' high prices or any such thing. Because they were selling snake oil - whatever the monetary value, it does not work as advertised.

Don't let any denomination nor day can keep you from Christ. He did not rent the veil to clear room for more of Legalism's tables.

Keep up the good research.

And pray you don't let dates become your doves.

68 posted on 12/07/2014 1:14:19 PM PST by BuddhaBrown (Path to enlightenment: Four right turns, then go straight until you see the Light!)
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To: ravenwolf
"...it does not make Sunday the Sabbath..."

By all means, attend your denomination's services on the day which convicts you.

Just don't imagine that day is what saves you.

69 posted on 12/07/2014 1:17:08 PM PST by BuddhaBrown (Path to enlightenment: Four right turns, then go straight until you see the Light!)
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To: BuddhaBrown

The reason I included greed is that the high priest ordered that only Tyrian shekels would be accepted for the annual half-shekel Temple tax. They contained a higher percentage of silver, so the money changers exchanged unacceptable coins for these shekels. Of course, they extracted a profit, sometimes much more than the law allowed.
Shalom


70 posted on 12/07/2014 1:49:51 PM PST by wheat_grinder
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To: BuddhaBrown

“Just don’t imagine that day is what saves you.”
Never have I thought works or observing holy days would save me. Those things are just the fruits of salvation. Observing Sabbath is keeping the commandments, well one of them anyway.


71 posted on 12/07/2014 1:53:20 PM PST by wheat_grinder
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To: ravenwolf

Veils over hearts, you mean.


72 posted on 12/07/2014 2:02:18 PM PST by Oratam
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To: BuddhaBrown

By all means, attend your denomination’s services on the day which convicts you.


It don`t bother me, this is not about when you should worship.

It is about Changing the Sabbath to Sunday, it did not happen.


73 posted on 12/07/2014 2:33:34 PM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: Oratam

Veils over hearts, you mean.


No, the modern day religious leaders are just like the scribes and Pharisees of Christ`s day.

The former leaders wanted to go by the letter of the law from God who they never believed in, they believed in the religion only because it was power.

The religious leaders of today do not believe in God either but they do believe in power so they Change the laws of God which give them power.

That is what I meant.


74 posted on 12/07/2014 2:48:37 PM PST by ravenwolf (` Does the scripture explain it in full detail? if not how can you?)
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To: wheat_grinder

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-sabbath/

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/sabbath-or-sunday

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/seventh-day-adventism


75 posted on 12/07/2014 3:09:14 PM PST by iowamark (I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy)
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To: wheat_grinder

Thanks for keeping a good discussion on the Sabbath. Like yourself, I was not always a Sabbath-keeper, until I studied history, and became more able to discern tradition from scripture. But since I have been keeping the Sabbath, I find I am double blessed and that it is my favorite day of the week. Most of my friends are Sunday keepers and because I live in a rural area, there are not a lot of church choices. I go to a little Sunday church, but for the fellowship. My Sabbath will always be Saturday. Did you know that the spanish language has no word for Saturday? They say Sabado (Sabbath).


76 posted on 12/07/2014 4:52:14 PM PST by SisterK
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To: GreyFriar

Tradition!


77 posted on 12/07/2014 8:19:04 PM PST by the_daug
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To: the_daug

2 Thessalonians 2:15.


78 posted on 12/07/2014 8:38:44 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wheat_grinder; Apple Pan Dowdy

May I suggest learning to count days as the Scriptures teach?

Today is day one
Tomorrow is day two
The day after tomorrow is the third day

The Scriptures are clear, Jesus rose on the first day of the week or the day known today as Sunday.
If Sunday was the third day, the Sabbath day or Saturday was the second day and the sixth day or Friday was the day he died for our sins.

If you still doubt this, Jewish boys must be circumcised on the 8th day according to the OT. if the boy is born on Friday, the 8th day is the following Friday. ( ask any Jewish rabbi ) When would the third day be?


79 posted on 12/07/2014 8:51:50 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

I won’t begin this with admonition as you did. I will just ask you to reexamine your counting of days AND nights in light of Yeshua’s word. Then get back with me.

(Luke 11:29-32)
38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


80 posted on 12/08/2014 4:38:47 AM PST by wheat_grinder
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