you're getting more intelligent by the day!!
Wow, some people cannot understand simple things. I perceive Elsie's post otherwise...
Posted on 12/03/2014 10:23:22 AM PST by NKP_Vet
In a new video, megachurch leader and author Rick Warren is calling for Christians to unite with Roman Catholics and “Pope Francis,” who Warren recently referred to as the “Holy Father”—a move that is raising concerns among Christians nationwide and is resulting in calls for Warren to repent.
Warren made the comments following his visit to the Vatican last month, where he spoke at an interfaith conference on the “Complementarity of Man and Woman.”
“We have far more in common than what divides us,” he said in the two-minute video released by the Catholic News Service on Wednesday, described as being an outline for “an ecumenical vision for Catholics and Protestants to work together to defend the sanctity of life, sex and marriage.”
“They would all say, ‘We believe in the Trinity; we believe in the Bible; we believe in the resurrection; we believe in salvation through Jesus Christ,” Warren asserted, speaking of the various denominations within Christianity, of which he included Roman Catholicism. “These are the big issues.”
The author of the bestselling book “The Purpose Driven Life” then sought to defend Catholics from those who take issue with the practice of seeking the intercession of Mary and the various deceased persons that have been sainted by the Vatican.
“Sometimes protestants think that Catholics worship Mary like she’s another god, but that’s not exactly Catholic doctrine,” Warren contended. “People say, ‘What are the saints all about? Why are you praying to the saints?’ And when you understand what they mean by what they’re saying, there’s a whole lot more commonality [that we have with Roman Catholics].”
“There’s still real differences—no doubt about that,” Warren stated. “But the most important thing is, if you love Jesus, we’re on the same team.”
He closed by speaking of his belief that Christians and Catholics serve as co-laborers for the cause of defending life and family.
“When it comes to the family, we are co-workers in the field in this for the protection of the sanctity of life, the sanctity of sex and the sanctity of marriage,” Warren said. “So, there’s a great commonality and there’s no division on any of those three.”
But Warren’s comments have raised concern from Christian leaders nationwide, who are now calling the Saddleback leader to repentance. Matt Slick of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) repudiated each of Warren’s points.
“Sure, there are Catholics who love the real Christ, the one who died on the cross for our sins. That is not the problem,” he said. “The problem is the Roman Catholic Church’s false teachings concerning Mary and salvation.”
“Rick Warren says both the Catholics and the Protestants believe in the Bible. But, there is a significant difference between the Bible of the Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, which has added seven books,” Slick wrote. “[T]here are numerous problems in the apocryphal books, such as the teaching of salvation by works [and] the offering of money for the sins of the dead.”
“Warren implies that both Protestants and Catholics have the same view of salvation,” he continued. “Though it’s technically correct to say that Catholics believe in salvation through Jesus Christ, they reject justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Instead, it teaches that good works of various kinds are necessary for salvation.”
The Christian apologist then pointed to several Roman Catholic teachings on Mary, mainly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), such as that Mary “by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation” and that “[b]y asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All-Holy One.”
“Rick Warren has not only failed to recognize the problems in these serious areas, but he has lent his credibility as a Protestant pastor in support of the Roman Catholic Church,” Slick wrote. “This should never be done by any Protestant pastor who takes the Bible seriously. I must conclude that Mr. Warren does not take the word of God seriously and/or he does not understand the damnable teachings of Roman Catholicism regarding salvation.”
“Rick Warren needs to repent,” he said.
And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican (Mt 18:17)
But then again, sola scriptura is not my problem. If protestants choose to cleave half of the Deposit of the Faith then it is theirs.
‘Your patience and understanding is appreciated.’
should be:
‘Your patience and understanding are appreciated.’
Looks like I’m taking a few posts to get the hang of the English language as well.
As I said....nothing says we are subject to the pope.
Of course. No apology is necessary. I'll read your latest post and have a reply for you later. Until then enjoy the rest of your day and may the Peace of Christ be with you.
If you say so...
He did not.
There is no where in Scripture where apostolic succession is commanded and there's no where where the papacy is established by Jesus and He telling us to be subject to the pope.
The Catholic church is just making the claim to put their claim to ultimate authority over everyone beyond dispute and it is not.
I’ve been a recipient of enough Catholic *love* in my life that I’ve had my fill.
Thanks but no thanks.
And no, the Catholic church has no authority over me and I am not subject to it.
Being subject to Christ is not equivalent to being subject to the Roman Catholic church.
Funny....didn’t see where it said be subject to the pope! Maybe that’s in douehy reins!
Taking a verse out of context and using it to bludgeon people into submission is not good exegesis.
The whole passage is about settling disputes between brothers.
It is not a command of Jesus that all people be subject to Roman Catholicism.
Hmmm. I can't help but make the comparison between what you said and the atheist described as a wounded theist.
Being subject to Christ is not equivalent to being subject to the Roman Catholic church.
Yes it is. Christ and His Church are one.
The church yes.....not the ROMAN false church.
Thank you. Please take all the time you need. No rush. Plus, God willing, I need to reread your last post and respond to a few more points. It will no doubt be a while, so again, no rush.
Thank you for your blessing. May the peace of Christ be with you also.
What? Christ is His Bride?
He marries Himself in heaven?
If by church you mean Roman Catholicism, then you're back to that people must be part of Roman Catholicism to be saved, as the church taught for centuries.
However, the church is the body of Christ comprised of all believers, not just and only Catholics.
CCC 808 The Church is the Bride of Christ: he loved her and handed himself over for her. He has purified her by his blood and made her the fruitful mother of all God's children.
CCC 796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist. The Lord referred to himself as the "bridegroom." The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride "betrothed" to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him. The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb. "Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her." He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:
This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? "The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church." And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: "So they are no longer two, but one flesh." They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself "bride."
CCC 789 The comparison of the Church with the body casts light on the intimate bond between Christ and his Church. Not only is she gathered around him; she is united in him, in his body. Three aspects of the Church as the Body of Christ are to be more specifically noted: the unity of all her members with each other as a result of their union with Christ; Christ as head of the Body; and the Church as bride of Christ.
So what?
Catholic behavior has not turned me against God.
Nor did it even turn me against Catholicism.
Because when I first got saved, the first church I went to was the Catholic church I was raised in.
What caused me to leave that then was the disparity I saw between what I read in Scripture and what the Catholic church taught.
And at that time, I had precious little contact with Protestantism and Protestant thought so that did not color my thought.
“And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican (Mt 18:17)”
This verse is about arbitration in the local church between two believers. It is about the response to the arbitration by each of the two parties. It not about a “pope”.
Just an observation. It seems that most lapsed Catholics leave the Church not because of bad theology but bad experience. If one were to actually read the most recent Pew poll about the surge in South American Pentecostalism that's been touted around here they would see that most "conversions" are the result of a desire for a way of worship more in line with their indigenous pagan beliefs and the prospects of economic advancement.
What caused me to leave that then was the disparity I saw between what I read in Scripture and what the Catholic church taught.
I know. It's so empowering. To be able to say, "I decide." Or to use the Holy Spirit as cover when they reject the Eucharist. Thinking one is a Berean. It's a shame so many protestants can't get past themselves to live their faith as opposed to just reading about it.
you're getting more intelligent by the day!!
you're getting more intelligent by the day!!
Wow, some people cannot understand simple things. I perceive Elsie's post otherwise...
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