Posted on 11/29/2014 2:59:15 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
I recently had a few young men looking to join the Catholic Church. Their math teacher told them that if they join the Catholic Church, they'll go to Hell.
What do you hope to accomplish by making gross jokes about the subject? Or is that the actual level your mind operates on?
If you drink that cup of coffee, you are going to Hell.
Good thing I never thought to inform them our cousins are Jewish and we'd go to temple and visit for Hanukkah. Right before the reception following my cousin's Bar Mitzvah, mother and an aunt made last minute inspections. One pate was shaped into a cross and the other into a Christmas tree. They fixed it with a big spoon just as everyone came in the door. Don't know if St. Peter gave them black marks or brownie points for that.
What jokes?
Does the Catholic church not teach that you have to consume the eucharist to have Jesus live in you?
That’s called *eating*.
No. Nothing like that. Your notions of what the Church teaches on the subject are a caricature.
It's hardly a gross joke...It is exactly what Jesus told us...
Mat_15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mar_7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Jesus lets us understand that nothing that goes into the belly reaches the heart...Have you given up all of scripture for your tradition???
“Now, if ‘everything that entereth into the mouth goes into the belly and is cast out into the drought,’ even the meat which has been sanctified through the word of God and prayer, in accordance with the fact that it is material, goes into the belly and is cast out into the draught, but in respect of the prayer which comes upon it, according to the proportion of the faith, becomes a benefit and is a means of clear vision to the mind which looks to that which is beneficial, and it is not the material of the bread but the word which is said over it which is of advantage to him who eats it not unworthily of the Lord. And these things indeed are said of the typical and symbolical body. But many things might be said about the Word Himself who became flesh, and true meat of which he that eateth shall assuredly live for ever, no worthless person being able to eat it; for if it were possible for one who continues worthless to eat of Him who became flesh. who was the Word and the living bread, it would not have been written, that ‘every one who eats of this bread shall live for ever.’” (Origen, Commentary on Mathew 11:14)
Origen knew the bread was,,, just bread...
That’s one of the problems.
If the eucharist gives life, then by eating it, anyone who does has life.
And Jesus, in John 6 said that they’d live forever.
So, it either must work all the time, or it doesn’t work at all.
If it works all the time, then reprobates like Kerry and Kennedy, and Pelosi, to name a few, have eternal life.
And if it works all the time, then it works and does not need to be replenished. Once is enough, just like the Tree of Life in the Garden that God had to block access to so that Adam and Eve would not eat and live forever in a sinful state.
If people die, then it’s proof that the consuming the physical is not causing them to live forever as physical consuming would cause physical eternal life, just like the Tree of Life would.
Honestly, Catholics just never think through what they have been taught from the cradle. There are inconsistencies in it that you can drive a truck through, but they just go and excuse the inconsistencies with *It’s just a mystery of the faith. You have to accept it by faith.*
Something they won’t even do with Jesus and the word of God.
I know...Back in the 70s I I ate a couple of those wafers...Guess I was good to go...
So?
What does Origen say that contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the Eucharist?
Origen is not a Father or Doctor of the Church, precisely because he was a heretic in some matters.
The Catholic Church does not teach, has never taught, that the accidents of the bread and wine, which are consumed, behave in any way differently in the stomach than ordinary bread and wine. They are destroyed. When that happens, the sacramental presence of Christ ceases. The effects of the sacrament remain, because of the WORD which was spoken over the elements, and because Christ has been received, by the power of the Holy Spirit. The two main effects of the sacrament are the increase of charity and the forgiveness of venial sin.
Nothing Origen said contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church concerning the Eucharist. Our Lord’s saying about the normal process of digestion has no bearing on the effects of reception of the Eucharist.
You seem to have the crudest possible understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist. You don’t seem to have made any effort to grasp even the most basic concepts involved, but instead merely ransack sources, looking for phrases that appear to pose stumbling blocks.
Actual concepts are not to be found in isolated phrases.
Which Jesus NEVER taught was a consequence of eating Him in the form of bread and wine.
Physical actions do not cause spiritual realities to happen.
God is not at the beck and call of people, obligated to act based on their actions or performance.
That makes it no different than any name it and claim it theology.
It’s the same false teaching that is going about in Pentecostalism that our words create our reality and have creative power.
You have not been baptized?
Of course it does...You guys claim you get some spiritual benefit from putting something in your stomach...Jesus says, 'can't happen'...
You are abusing the Scripture. For one thing, in order to abuse that Scripture and make it say what you want it to say, you have to ignore all the other evidence that the first several generations of Christians, including the evangelists, taught that Jesus gives himself to us in a sacrament.
For one thing: Jesus was preaching about dietary laws, not the Eucharist—which did not yet exist, and which he would have absolutely NO reason at that point to be preaching about.
Second: the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist is not the crude, grotesque notion you appear to entertain. You devise abusive, gross language to describe it, and then pretend that you have restated Catholic doctrine in some way.
The Eucharist is not a matter of eating Jesus as though he had been turned into a hunk of bread, and then carrying this “Jesus” around in our stomach. That gross figment of your imagination bears no resemblance to anything taught by anybody anywhere.
No he was not...He was rebuking those people of the traditions of men...And telling them that putting things into their stomachs does not make one holy or unholy...He claimed what goes into the heart, not the stomach is what counts...
The Eucharist is not a matter of eating Jesus as though he had been turned into a hunk of bread, and then carrying this “Jesus” around in our stomach. That gross figment of your imagination bears no resemblance to anything taught by anybody anywhere.
Well that may not be what your religion wants to portray but that is the reality of it...Like I said, you guys teach that you get some spiritual benefit from the Eucharist but God confirms that it is impossible...
It is an ugly picture...Jesus says, eat my flesh...And that's what you guys claim to do...It's your claim, not mine...And it's ugly...
So what is it that you want to portray to the world what eating Jesus' flesh is???
It’s in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in the gospels, in the epistles, in all the Fathers whose quotations I sent you, in Thomas Aquinas, etc., etc., all of which are at your fingertips.
And in all that, there is no hint of the crude, jejune, juvenile notions you keep exhibiting.
I can see that you are incapable, at least at this time, of conversing about this subject at an adult level. I will say some Hail Marys, asking Our Lady to intercede with her Son to give you the graces needed to be free of the impoverished 16th-Century novelties which have your mind imprisoned.
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