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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Gamecock

>> You seem to take this in the sense of “I must perform more good works than the Pharisees.”

.
No!

As usual you impart to me your misinterpretation.

The point is that the Pharisees were totally violators of Torah, even to the extent of writing their own laws to avoid the letter and the spirit of Torah.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 plainly states the conclusion of the whole matter is that the keeping of Torah is the entirety of Man.

In Matthew 5, Yeshua affirms this fact, and states that it is to be so as long as the Earth and heaven exist. Theologians, all being separate from the elect of Yehova, always seek any false excuse to dismiss Torah. They are all “workers of Iniquity.”

To try to turn any of Paul’s declarations into a dismissal of Torah can be seen as a false interpretation on its face. Paul stated plainly in Romans 2 that only doers of the law will be justified.

That doesn’t say that anyone will be justified BY doing the law, but nevertheless only those that do the law will be justified.

All of the apostles state this same opinion, and John in particular takes it to us in stern detail in his first epistle.

Buffoons attempt to twist this fact out of the gospel.


33 posted on 11/21/2014 7:29:00 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
In Matthew 5, Yeshua affirms this fact, and states that it is to be so as long as the Earth and heaven exist.

You are referring to these verses:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Mat 5:17-18)

It quite clearly says that Christ was sent to "fulfill" the law. To those of us who are saved, we are no longer under the law, but under grace. The damned, however, are strictly under the law, even the law written on their hearts, and they are condemned by it.

As for Torah, you are referring, of course, to dietary laws, circumcision, feast days and other ritual laws. These are abrogated by name throughout scripture, all these jots and tittles, especially in Paul:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law." (Gal 5:2-3)

Paul's dismissal of circumcision is important since without it one cannot keep any of the laws of Moses, such as the Passover feast:

Exo_12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Here Paul rids us of dietary laws, another jot and tittle:

"For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." (1Ti 4:4-5)

Prayer sanctifies unclean foods, giving us all liberty to eat them.

Finally, the church in council asserted we were not under the law of Moses, and declared that we were under grace, in Acts 15:

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Act 15:24) No commandment to keep the law, or to be circumcised, were given.

38 posted on 11/21/2014 9:27:35 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: editor-surveyor
To try to turn any of Paul’s declarations into a dismissal of Torah can be seen as a false interpretation on its face. Paul stated plainly in Romans 2 that only doers of the law will be justified.

I forgot to respond to this. Paul's argument, which you rip out of its context even against your own assertion that we "ought to consider the writing as a whole," is that no one is justified by the law. Hence in Romans 3 he declares everyone guilty:

"What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Rom 3:9-10)

Note how he writes "we have BEFORE proved" that all are under sin, none are righteous, etc. This was proven in Romans 1 and 2.

39 posted on 11/21/2014 9:30:17 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: editor-surveyor

**That doesn’t say that anyone will be justified BY doing the law, but nevertheless only those that do the law will be justified.**

Are you sure you wrote that sentence the way you intended?

And Paul writing ‘rabbit trails’? No, He just was VERY thorough in his teaching. The problem is when people take things out of context. Some will take Romans 10:9 and toss aside Acts 2:38. Romans was written to people that had ALREADY been born again; addressing them as such in the first few verses; reminding them of their conversions in chapter 6. He addresses them as ‘brethern’ in 7:1, as being ‘not in the flesh, but in the Spirit’ in 8:9. And there are many other examples.

He addresses them in 10:1 as ‘brethern’ once again, telling them in 10:8 that ‘The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and IN THY HEART: that is, the word of faith, which we preach’. Yep, them folks were already born again.

10:10-15 reminds them that for others to believe, they must first hear, and that from a preacher sent from God.

Peter preached Christ, and him crucified, beginning on the day of Pentecost. When asked “What shall we do?” by the convicted souls, Peter replied, “Repent,” (this is where the ‘reformed’ bunch stops) “and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,” (then the ‘reformed’ bunch hops back in here) “and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost......”.


42 posted on 11/21/2014 10:09:07 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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