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To: Boogieman

A better question, perhaps, is has the Roman church authorized this “ministry”?

“Can. 678 §1 In matters concerning the care of souls, the public exercise of divine worship and other works of the apostolate, religious are subject to the authority of the Bishops, whom they are bound to treat with sincere obedience and reverence.

§2 In the exercise of an apostolate towards persons outside the institute, religious are also subject to their own Superiors and must remain faithful to the discipline of the institute. If the need arises, Bishops themselves are not to fail to insist on this obligation.

§3 In directing the apostolic works of religious, diocesan Bishops and religious Superiors must proceed by way of mutual consultation.”

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P28.HTM

Indeed, but you need to go back further in this history of this "church" that settles the problem of conflicting teaching .

“We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”,

And which if not now, was still in force at the time when the (my source) Catholic Encyclopedia was written [http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Religious_Discussions], which adds,

“This law, like all penal laws, must be very narrowly construed. The terms Catholic Faith and dispute have a technical signification. The former term refers to questions purely theological; the latter to disputations more or less formal, and engrossing the attention of the public. But when there is a question of dogmatic or moral theology, every intelligent layman will concede the propriety of leaving the exposition and defence of it to the clergy.” [who themselves needed due authorization]. - www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm

Likewise,

Quinisext Ecumenical Council, Canon 64: That a layman must not publicly make a speech or teach, thus investing himself with the dignity of a teacher, but, instead, must submit to the ordinance handed down by the Lord, and to open his ear wide to them who have received the grace of teaching ability, and to be taught by them the divine facts thoroughly.

"Do not converse with heretics even for the sake of defending the faith, for fear lest their words instil their poison in your mind". Bl. Isaias Boner of Krakow (Polish, Augustinian priest, theologian, professor of Scripture, d. 1471)

227 posted on 11/14/2014 10:45:04 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
>>whom they are bound to treat with sincere obedience and reverence.<<

"Bound ey? That sounds rather cultish.

>>“We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”,<<

Oy!!! Lot's of Freepers here subject to excommunication it would seem.

>>"Do not converse with heretics even for the sake of defending the faith, for fear lest their words instil their poison in your mind". Bl. Isaias Boner of Krakow (Polish, Augustinian priest, theologian, professor of Scripture, d. 1471)<<

Yep! It's a cult.

245 posted on 11/14/2014 11:42:18 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: daniel1212

I always find it funny when FRomans accuse us of ignorance on Catholic doctrine, and then it turns out that we have done more research into the laws of their church then they have done themselves.


252 posted on 11/14/2014 12:14:04 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: daniel1212; boatbums
"'Do not converse with heretics even for the sake of defending the faith, for fear lest their words instil their poison in your mind.'"

=============================================================

Are you a heretic?

That "Sextus Decretalium" was part of old Canon Law, and has since been abrogated and superseded.

(Much of Canon Law is changeable, when it is not related to "doctrinal matters" concerning "faith and morals", and has in fact changed over time.  :  See this reference concerning that:    "http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/where-does-the-churchs-authority-to-change-canon-law-come- from".)

Regarding that abrogation of that obsolete code you referenced, read this:

=============================================================

EWTN Catholic Q&A
Laymen Prohibited from Debating?
Question from Dave Downing on 02-20-2001:

A Catholic Encylopedia entry at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm shows that:

By a decree of Alexander IV (1254-1261) inserted in "Sextus Decretalium", Lib. V, c. ii, and still in force, all laymen are forbidden, under threat of excommunication, to dispute publicly or privately with heretics on the Catholic Faith. The text reads: "Inhibemus quoque, ne cuiquam laicæ personæ liceat publice vel privatim de fide catholicâ disputare. Qui vero contra fecerit, excommunicationis laqueo innodetur." (We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication.)

Is this still in force and does it prohibit apologetic efforts by laymen over the Internet? Can you explain where it was revoked or superceded?

Thank you

Answer by Saint Joseph Foundation on 02-21-2001:

The decree is indeed part of the Corpus Iuris Canonici; but the Corpus was abrogated by the first Codex Iuris Canonici in 1917, which was in turn abrogated by the 1983 Code. Canon 6 of the Code now in force states:

§1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:

1 the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;

2 other universal or particular laws contrary to the prescripts of this Code unless other provision is expressly made for particular laws;

3 any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See unless they are contained in this Code;

4 other universal disciplinary laws regarding matter which this Code completely reorders.

§2. Insofar as they repeat former law, the canons of this Code must be assessed also in accord with canonical tradition.

(SOURCE:   "http://ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=359399&language=en"

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308 posted on 11/14/2014 8:39:55 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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