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To: SteveH

I know the Arabs are a sub-ethnicity. I am just saying that Abraham caused a lot of problems when he fathered a child with Hagar. You can’t deny that. Sarah rebelled against God when she encouraged Abraham to sleep with Hagar because she wasn’t trusting God to keep his promise about giving her a child.


90 posted on 11/10/2014 9:18:17 PM PST by CrimsonTidegirl
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To: CrimsonTidegirl

I’m not sure the creation of problems as you describe can be attributed so much to a single individual as, if one subscribes to the traditional Judeo-Christian religious belief system, to G*d himself. I am no expert but I do recall that the tribulations of Job, just to mention one example, are conventionally attributed to G*d, and specifically as a test of Job’s faith, not punishment for Job’s behavior. In addition I hope no one blames me for what my grandchildren do and I hope no one blames you for what your grandchildren do. I certainly do not blame Abraham for what his descendants do. So I think to read into the OT that the modern Middle East unrest is due to Abraham is a less than conventional if not less than Christian stretch. I read the NT as in essence a story of redemption through forgiveness. Christ saved all humans (even descendants of Abraham) through his sacrifice and forgiveness. We are challenged to use Christ as an example to forgive each other (even descendants of Abraham). To me, forgiving means letting go such talk of blame.

About Sarah rebelling against G*d— I do not see that specifically in the OT passages (presuming you are discussing Genesis 16). If that is not written in the OT, then it is outside of the bible and merely an interpretation, something which is not definitive of the OT itself. Is this your interpretation or something you came across in studies? In Genesis 16:6, G*d specifically seems to have compassion for Hagar and the wording used (Sarai mistreats Hagar) seems to blame Sarai not for presenting Hagar to Abram, but for her jealosy. That is, the OT is not condemning polygamy (when it easily could have in the same or nearby passages). The however OT is condemning jealosy between wives of the same husband.

[So, CrimsonTidegirl, are you jealous of someone? Is it someone associated with your husband or boyfriend? If so, do you think your feelings of jealosy are justified by the bible, or condemned by it?]

Blaming Abraham or any other one ancestor for the current Middle East conflict seems like the type of thinking that Christ would condemn. Christ’s example is not about blame— it is about forgiveness, and if we believe in Christ we are asked by him to forgive others— not to blame others. Would you deny that?

I read in Genesis 20:17-18 the following:

17 Then Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelek, his wife and his female slaves so they could have children again, 18 for the Lord had kept all the women in Abimelek’s household from conceiving because of Abraham’s wife Sarah.

This specifically seems to bless Abimelek despite that Abimelek seems to be a polygamist.


92 posted on 11/10/2014 11:03:10 PM PST by SteveH (First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.)
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