Posted on 11/03/2014 5:02:42 AM PST by Sam's Army
The idea that the Bible declares hell a real and literal place is no more valid than the toxic lie that the Bible condemns homosexuality.
Yet the idea that hell is real persists. Why? Because over the centuries those in positions of power within the institutions of Christianity have methodically, relentlessly, and with great art used the doctrine of hell to exploit the innate fear of death that is harbored by one and all.
Show me a Christian terrified of hell, and I’ll show you a Christian ready to pay good money for the assurance that he is not going there.
If you don’t think the “doctrine” of hell is about the accrual of money and power, then … then God bless your naiveté.
For the rest of us, it’s certainly worth asking what a Christianity without hell would look like. Well …
A Christianity without hell would be literally fearless.
A Christianity without hell would have nothing to recommend it but the constant and unending love of God. It would allow Christians to point upward to God’s love—but never downward to His/Her wrath.
A Christianity without hell would be largely unevangelical, since there would be nothing to save anyone from.
A Christianity without hell would trust that God’s loving benevolence towards all people (emphasis on all) extends beyond this life and into the next.
Bringing peace about the afterlife, a Christianity without hell would free Christians to fully embrace this life, to heed Christ’s commandment to in this life love our neighbors as we love ourselves.
In short, a Christianity without hell would be a fearless, trusting, loving, divinely inspired source of good in the world.
And this Christianity would be more biblical—would be truer to not just the words but the very spirit of Christianity—than any Christianity that posits the reality of hell.
I want that Christianity. I insist upon that Christianity.
Tell me I’m not alone.
Not very would be my guess...still works, why change a thing?
I want that Christianity. I insist upon that Christianity.
“Because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” Romans 2:5-8
“There will be a time of distress such has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But, at that time your people..everyone whose name is found written in the book...will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:1-2
“the toxic lie that the Bible condemns homosexuality. “
This should be simple enough to prove if it is a lie or not.
She’s not alone. It is known as the broad way leading to destruction.
Patheos is the mouthpiece of “Progressive Christianity”.
Progressives screw up everything they touch.
I don’t need flames to be afraid of hell... the thought of being locked away with all those who choose to disobey God (with no gaurds to keep order) is bad enough.
Here is what I believe: (and in my opinion what you HAVE to believe, to believe in God)
1. God - is the creator. (if he didn’t create us, then he is not God)
#1 is the MOST important belief, since everything that follows is based on that one belief.
2. God could have created ... basically organic robots that do exactly what he wants them to do every time and nothing else. BUT, instead he created us with FREE WILL. Free will by necessity implies sometimes doing things God wouldn’t want you to do.
Now... here’s where we come to the first big fork in the road.
God will either tolerate the beings he created being in his presence while openly disobeying him, or he will not. Or in other words, there are either laws and/or rules in the afterlife, or there is anarchy.
A - If you believe that God will NOT tolerate a being he created being in his presence while openly disobeying him.. then you MUST believe there is a place away from God (we call this place prison on earth, and hell in the afterlife)
B - If you believe that God WILL tolerate beings he created, being in his presence while openly disobeying him... then .... there is no need to listen too or obey God. Because then there are no consequences for disobedience, no enternal justice, and simply anarchy after death.
Now...
we call the place where you are with God, Heaven.
and we call the place where you are away from God, Hell.
What does Heaven look like ? What does hell look like ? I don’t know and to me it doesn’t matter.
Hell MUST by definition be worse than Heaven, since if it were not, then it wouldn’t be much of a punishment for committing a crime (known as sin in heaven).
The article seems to be implying that punishment in heaven for crimes is somehow unjust, and that a loving God would never do such a thing.
I would argue that living forever in a place with no rules or punishment would be hell.
Once you have gone through all the above and decided and agreed that.
1 - There is a God
2 - He created us with free will
A - If we obey him, we will be with him in a good place in the after life.
B - If we disobey him, we will be away from him in a worse place in the after life.
Then what remains is simply to determine what God wants!
(here is where most part company)
Everyone thinks THEY know what God wants! But the reality is none of us know for sure.
We can read and study on the subject for our entire lives and still never know for sure the truth.
But I do know ... that GOD knows.
The best we can do is look at the information we have. Most of which is in the old and new testaments. (Because, unless God descends from the heavens and decides to clarify things to you personally this is the best we can do)
So a smart person who believes in God will do his best to follow to the best of his ability what is written in the old and new testaments.
Now, honest, good, caring, loving people can disagree about what we are being told to do or not do.
But. You can’t argue we are not being told to do or not do anything, and that there will be no consequences for doing the wrong thing! Because to argue that would be to argue that either 1 - there is no God, or 2 - that the afterlife is a lawless anarchy.
I am just wondering if any of the commenters here know the difference between the original Hebrew and Greek words translated into hell in the Bible (Sheol, Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna) or are you just basing your opinions on what some preacher told you?
If a prophet uses logical fallacies (false choice), should we entertain them?
“Thou shalt not have false Gods before me...” The author wants to worship a false god apparently.
att. 3:12; Luke 3:17 - John the Baptist said the Lord will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. This unquenchable fire is the state of eternal separation from God, which the Church has called “hell” for 2,000 years. Some Protestant communities no longer acknowledge the reality of hell.
Matt. 25:41 - Jesus says, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”
Matt. 25:46 - Jesus says, “they will go away into eternal punishment” which is in reference to this eternal fire.
Mark 9:47-48 - Jesus refers to hell as where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. It lasts forever.
2 Thess. 1:6-9 - the angels will come with flaming fire and the disobedient will suffer punishment of eternal destruction. It is important to note that “destruction” does not mean “annihilation,” as some Protestant denominations teach. It means eternal exclusion from the presence of God.
Jude 6-7 - the rebelling angels, and Sodom and Gomorrah, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rev. 14:11 - the worshipers of the beast suffer and the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:10 - they’re tormented in the lake of fire and brimstone day and night forever and ever.
Isaiah 33:14 - “Who of us can dwell in the everlasting fire?” This is a reference to hell which is forever.
Isaiah 66:24 - their worm shall not die and their fire shall not be quenched. We cannot fathom the pain of this eternal separation from God.
Jer. 15:14 - in my anger a fire is kindled which shall burn forever. Hell is the proper compliment to the eternal bliss of heaven.
Judith 16:17 - in the day of judgment the Lord will take vengeance on the wicked and they shall weep in pain forever. Hell is a place that sinners have prepared for themselves by rejecting God, who desires all people to be saved in His Son Jesus Christ. God sends no one to hell.
You will have lots of company.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)
If I were Satan and wanted to accomplish all my objectives, my first order of business would be to convince everyone that hell doesn’t exist.
The idea that the Bible declares hell a real and literal place is no more valid than the toxic lie that the Bible condemns homosexuality.
On the latter subject (the bible condemning homosexuality) I offer a clarification. It talks about homosexual ACTS. It also talks about “burning with desire” for the same sex. However, it also says that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, yet says not all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. And then there is the works thing.
The thing is, way too many people hang on every english translated word in whatever translation they prefer, forgetting that it is all translated from languages that do not always easily translate into English. And ALL scripture that deals with people having sex with members of their same sex condemn the practice. All of them.
Regarding hell, it is mentioned a lot in the bible, and hell itself will suffer a final death as described in the book of Revelation (thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death).
But the eternal suffering thing creates strange bedfellows. When perusing sites that have a lot of Christianity haters starting threads, they often bring up the “lunacy” that a loving God will make those that don’t believe suffer an eternity of conscious pain, I tell them “That is not what the bible says.” Next thing you know, they are using scripture to “prove” the bible says non-Christians will suffer for all eternity in hell.
It is critical to their critique of Christianity that this eternal suffering thing be so. But when I Christian argues that it is NOT so, they panic. That is rather interesting, I think.
And, unlike the “homosexuality” issue, there is plenty of scripture to support my position. Over and over again, the bible compares the fate of the follower of Christ vs the fate of the lost as “eternal life” vs death, destruction, perish, etc. It also makes VERY clear that this fate is qute permanent. There will be no second chance. It is finished. How long the lost “feel” that regret, loss, anger (gnashing of teeth), etc. is what everyone debates.
However, to interpret “death/destruction/perish vs eternal life” to mean that “both sides of the equation equate eternal life, but one is a “bad” eternal life, is to stretch the meaning of the english words used to apply in ways they do not apply outside the bible in common language. Which is why those who take a firm position on the subject need a deep understanding of the actual greek and hebrew words used and the cultural context in which they are used.
But the writer of this article is wildly off base on all issues. And it can be easily argued and proven so.
A Christianity without hell would be largely unevangelical, since there would be nothing to save anyone from.
It saves them from permanent death. That is a worthwhile pursuit.
Jesus had more to say about hell than everyone else in the bible combined. “where the fire is never quenched and the worm never dies”
He was saying that the lost will, in fact, be destroyed and the “fire and worm” will do their job completely and effectively, removing the lost soul from existence.
I was waiting for him to backup his first sentence, but he obviously got prosaically carried away with the rest of his...screed.
With apologies to my Christian friends, Hell is really not described in Torah, unless it’s something analogous to a garbage dump outside Jerusalem. Plus, to me, a devil undermines monotheism.
This John Shore seems more like an islamist facilitator to my mind. Just get in and muck it up.
...A humans ability to inflict harm is nowhere near the lowly Maggots ability to cleanse a flesh wound...and yet these fleeting thoughts of immoral men attempt to consume more than just flesh , they attempt to steal your faith as well.
Perhaps I should call them fools , but I can not. Peace
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