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To: Resettozero
I believe in what Jesus Christ himself said, that it is not enough to cry "Lord, Lord" but that we must do with will of the Father which is to love. I also believe what Saint Paul said, that if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing; and what Saint James said, that faith without works is dead.

Do you not also believe this? Do you not believe the Bible?

133 posted on 11/02/2014 7:28:53 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Since you don’t answer my direct question to you, neither will I answer yours.


135 posted on 11/02/2014 7:33:09 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Petrosius; Resettozero
I believe in what Jesus Christ himself said, that it is not enough to cry "Lord, Lord" but that we must do with will of the Father which is to love. I also believe what Saint Paul said, that if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing; and what Saint James said, that faith without works is dead. Do you not also believe this? Do you not believe the Bible?

Let's go through this, then:

I believe in what Jesus Christ himself said, that it is not enough to cry "Lord, Lord" but that we must do with will of the Father which is to love. - What was Jesus talking about here? It was the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of this church age. The angels have gathered the wheat with the chaff that remained and the sheep were separated from the goats. Those who were crying, "Lord, Lord didn't we do all these wondrous works for you?!", and Jesus said, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you." These were NOT Christians who had failed to "love" but false Christians who were counting on all that they had done FOR God to save them. Those who were the sheep, didn't even know it was for Jesus that they did works of love - it was a natural output of a changed heart for God, indwelt with the Holy Spirit. We aren't saved by "our" love, but because of God's great love FOR us that we receive by faith. Works of love result because we are new creatures in Christ, but they do not save us.

I also believe what Saint Paul said, that if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing - and that's true, we can do nothing worthwhile for God without His love flowing through us. But to say "I am nothing without love" doesn't mean "I'm going to hell because I don't have love". Stick to what the Holy Spirit said.

and what Saint James said, that faith without works is dead - genuine faith WILL result in works, but the works do not save us. A "dead" faith is an unfruitful faith, not a going-to-hell faith. The Reformers NEVER preached that works weren't important in a Christian's life. Here are a few things Martin Luther had to say about faith and works:

    In his Introduction to Romans, Luther stated that saving faith is,

    a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever...Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt]

    This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

    “We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

    What Augustine says is indeed true: He who has created you without yourself will not save you without yourself. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life. For the sake of hypocrites it should be said that good works are necessary for salvation. Works must be done, but it does not follow from this that works save… Works save externally, that is, they testify that we are just and that in a man there is that faith which saves him internally, as Paul says: ‘With the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation’.” [What Luther Says 3: 1509]. [Ewald M. Plass, “What Luther says,” page 1509]

    “Thus faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works. When this takes place a person becomes known to me and to other people. For when I thus break forth I spare neither man nor devil, I cast myself down, and will have nothing to do with lofty affairs, and will regard myself as the poorest sinner on earth. This assures me of my, faith. For this is what it says: "This man went down to his house justified." Thus we attribute salvation as the principal thing to faith, and works as the witnesses of faith. They make one so certain that he concludes from the outward life that the faith is genuine.”[Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341]

    “Thus, faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire, like gold. Faith, the great gift and treasure from God, must express itself and triumph in the certainty that it is right before God and man, and before angels, devils and the whole world. Just as a jewel is not to be concealed, but to be worn in sight, so also, will and must faith be worn and exhibited, as it is written in 1 Peter 1, 7: "That the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire," etc.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2:245-246]

    Read more HERE


160 posted on 11/02/2014 8:53:01 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Petrosius
I am nothing; and what Saint James said, that faith without works is dead.

Works follows faith, not the other way around. Faith without works is dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart.
181 posted on 11/03/2014 3:58:09 AM PST by Old Yeller (D.A.M.N. - Deport All Muslims Now! Starting in the White House.)
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