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All Souls, Purgatory and the Bible
Da Mihi Animas ^ | November 2 2014

Posted on 11/02/2014 3:14:08 PM PST by NYer

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To: Petrosius
I am nothing; and what Saint James said, that faith without works is dead.

Works follows faith, not the other way around. Faith without works is dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart.
181 posted on 11/03/2014 3:58:09 AM PST by Old Yeller (D.A.M.N. - Deport All Muslims Now! Starting in the White House.)
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bookmark


182 posted on 11/03/2014 4:32:02 AM PST by Faith65 (Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!)
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To: Bigg Red

You are correct. We will agree to disagree. I will cease and desist...sorry for the trouble.


183 posted on 11/03/2014 4:33:06 AM PST by RoosterRedux
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To: Old Yeller
Faith without works is dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart.

So an act of faith is not enough. This is what I have been saying. You are halfway home.

184 posted on 11/03/2014 4:44:24 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: terycarl

What is so demanding about rituals?


185 posted on 11/03/2014 4:47:31 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: goodwithagun

Not sure why you thought saying hello to someone named Mary would help me but if it makes you feel better.


186 posted on 11/03/2014 4:52:48 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: RoosterRedux; NYer

With all due respect I think you’re missing the point NYer was making. The cross was purgatory for the repentant theif because it served to purge St Dismas (yes he’s considered a saint!) of his attachment to sin.

Most of us will not endure such purgation on earth but make no mistake one way or another, we must literally be as pure as Christ to enter heaven, so we will endure such suffering if we do not become detached from a desire to sin on earth.

His Sacrifice removes the penalty of sin (which is death in Hell) and original sin itself and any confessed sins in the future. But it doesnt remove our attachment to sin our propensity to sin. This is still part of our fallen nature and our daily struggle (to not only not sin but have no desire to sin).

This too is a gift from God. We can’t even remove our own desire to sin this is how pathetic we are. Fortunately we do receive gifts from God to help us fight such disordered desires, and this is the cross we are all called to carry. To pick up and follow him. Our cross, our particular burden of burdens here in this life are to help us realize Christ is our one desire. Not our sinful desires. Christ is who we desire nothing else. Our cross is to help us realize this as St Dismas did. This is why we are told to pick up our cross and follow him.

So in this way it is traditionally believed St Dismas was purged of his desire to sin by not only recognizing Jesus for who he is (accepting him as his savior) but also suffering with Him for his own sin, allowing his cross to purge himself of his desire to sin and to focus his desire on Christ. Indeed, imagine how much St Dismas must have desired Christ! Thus he became as pure as Christ at the moment of his death and thus was “with Him in paradise).

In this way many have said for example Teri Shiavo suffered and went through her own purgation on earth. Or, Mother Angelica may be going through a purgation now. A form of suffering so great that no sin can tempt, a suffering so great that only Christ is desired. This is purgation. This is purgatory.

We will suffer so greatly either here and now or in the hereafter. It is our choice.


187 posted on 11/03/2014 4:56:58 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: terycarl
>>.for one thousand six hundred years Christians pretty much shared the same beliefs.<<

Already by 90AD most of them were already told they were at risk of being sent to hell. Catholicism simply expanded on the errors of those "christians". If you think number of years impresses true believers think again.

188 posted on 11/03/2014 4:59:54 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: boatbums

“...Many of us were cradle catholics...”

They will have more to answer for at the Judgment, since they are now a step beyond material heresy (heresy through ignorance) and are now formal heretics - those who knew and rejected the Truth.

Just because a person doesn’t understand the Truth the first time around doesn’t mean that the Truth isn’t there and it is now OK to embrace late arriving heresies. Many of us did not understand the Truth at first - the 60’s were a time of extremely obscure catechization mixed with pop psychology in many dioceses. The decades after followed suit in many cases. However, the Truth being poorly taught doesn’t cause it to not be the Truth.

I was a cradle catholic who did not understand doctrines correctly until my 30’s when I began to read scripture. Then I was a “re vert”, and did not embrace heresy and instead read further into Catholic apologetics. John Henry Newman is an excellent place to begin.

John 6 clearly refers to the eucharist and cannot be twisted otherwise without mental gymnastics.

Protestants who do not understand Catholic Doctrine have no business trying to address Catholic topics because they do not have the fullness of the Truth. They are blind to the proper meaning of scripture.

2 Peter 1:20 and 2 Peter 3:16 condemns private interpretation

2 Thessalonians 2:14 clearly refers to oral tradition being handed down.

The Jewish people have always taught through word of mouth (tradition) AND the written word. The early Christians did not suddenly change this concept, especially since the bible wasn’t written right away.


189 posted on 11/03/2014 5:03:13 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

All true.


190 posted on 11/03/2014 5:05:18 AM PST by cloudmountain
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To: CynicalBear

I’ll also say a prayer for you.


191 posted on 11/03/2014 5:05:50 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Biggirl
>>Better to keep silent and not invite an argument.<<

Not according to scripture.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.…

192 posted on 11/03/2014 5:14:50 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: verga

You are aware that those are not used in worship of God?


193 posted on 11/03/2014 5:15:47 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

YOPIOS.


194 posted on 11/03/2014 5:16:01 AM PST by Biggirl
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To: CynicalBear

Scriptures can work both ways. That is why it is just better not to argue, period.


195 posted on 11/03/2014 5:17:59 AM PST by Biggirl
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To: CynicalBear
You are aware that those are not used in worship of God?

1 Corinthians 10:31

196 posted on 11/03/2014 5:20:25 AM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: verga
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God:

Now please show where wedding rings, Maids of honor, best men, and wedding toasts where used in "serving their gods".

197 posted on 11/03/2014 5:37:28 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Biggirl
>>That is why it is just better not to argue, period.<<

And still here you are.

198 posted on 11/03/2014 5:38:43 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Biggirl

Scripture is YOPIOS to you? Wow!


199 posted on 11/03/2014 5:39:50 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: goodwithagun
>>I’ll also say a prayer for you.<<

Well that's nice of you as long as it's not to some pagan "queen of heaven" or one of the other demi gods Catholics have.

200 posted on 11/03/2014 5:41:15 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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