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To: Fithal the Wise

So if this Pope declares that homosexuality is no longer a sin, does that mean Catholics now have to accept and support it? Because “infallibility.”


4 posted on 10/14/2014 10:40:32 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ('Merica!)
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To: Thane_Banquo

I don’t know about all that, but I do know I’ll leave the flock. The bible is pretty clear in that regard.


7 posted on 10/14/2014 10:43:46 AM PDT by Individual Rights in NJ (I don't even know what to say anymore..)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Not at all. If this Pope declares homosexuality is no longer a sin he de facto ceases to be Pope.

St. Thomas Aquinas:

“In the case in which the pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. A head separated from a body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body from which it was cut off.
“A pope who would be separated from the Church by heresy, therefore, would by that very fact itself cease to be head of the Church. He could not be a heretic and remain pope, because, since he is outside of the Church, he cannot possess the keys of the Church.”

St. Robert Bellarmine:

*”...a pope who is a manifest heretic by that fact ceases to be pope and head, just as he by that fact ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; wherefore he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the judgement of all the early fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.”


12 posted on 10/14/2014 10:46:03 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Thane_Banquo

“does that mean Catholics now have to accept and support it?”

No... Many would rightfully just leave the Church.


13 posted on 10/14/2014 10:46:47 AM PDT by babygene
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To: Thane_Banquo
'Infallibility' only applies to if the pope declares something 'ex cathedra.' That only happens rarely. It last happened in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as dogma.

So, no, Pope Francis' views on homosexuality are not infallible. And if he were to attempt to declare that homosexual acts are no longer sinful, it wouldn't be infallible. It would be heretical.
17 posted on 10/14/2014 10:51:30 AM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: Thane_Banquo
does that mean Catholics now have to accept and support it? Because “infallibility.”

The short answer is, no.

I'm not sure how to frame the longer answer. "Infallibility" is a gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church, expressed through a validly elected Pope, such that he cannot teach error WHEN exercising his office AND when teaching the Faith as expressed in scripture (unchangeable) and Tradition (also unchangeable).

A Pope who was a heretic when elected would not be validly elected (the College of Cardinals lacks the power to elect a heretic). A Pope who became a heretic after he was validly elected would cease to be Pope, whether formally deposed or otherwise.

This particular situation is especially interesting because there is a man, validly elected Pope in 2005, who is alive today (Josef Ratzinger). If you were a novelist, this situation would give you a broad canvas to work with.

30 posted on 10/14/2014 11:13:39 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Thane_Banquo

I do not think you know what that word means.


32 posted on 10/14/2014 11:14:43 AM PDT by T bench ("God wills it." Urban II)
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To: Thane_Banquo
Nope. Doesn't qualify as infallibility. Has to be consistent with the Magisterium. Saint JPII considered the whole body of prior magisterial teaching as binding, and that would especially apply to the Bible. Since Jesus called fornication sinful, not even the Pope and all current bishops together could overturn that. Must say, however, I am shocked and disappointed in Francis.
59 posted on 10/14/2014 1:40:33 PM PDT by Missouri gal
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