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To: boatbums
There's NO chance at all I would ever take a "maximalist ultramontane papalism" approach but I don't think even Newman would deny that that certainly WAS the view held by many Popes and their bishops in the past - that the whole world should be under the temporal as well as spiritual papal supremacy and in the clerical domination of society.

Judge which one is closer to how the papacy is seen by trad. RCs.

According to Manning's theory, it is our duty to accept implicitly whatever the present Church teaches, and to be sure that, however opposed this may seem to what we find in Scripture or antiquity, we need not trouble ourselves about the matter, and that the opposition can only be apparent.

According to this theory, then, all the prerogatives of Scripture are annulled: the dicta of Pius IX. and Leo XIII. are as truly inspired by God's Spirit, and are to be received with as much reverence, as the utterances of Peter and Paul. Thus the function of the Church, in the latest form of Romanism, is made to be not so much to guard and hand down securely an original revelation as to be a perpetual organ for making new revelations.[11] Whenever a new controversy arises, the Pope is divinely inspired to discern its true solution, and to pronounce which of the parties is in the right and how far.

In this way Manning's party have now got beyond the old Ultramontane doctrine of the inerrancy of the Pope. This doctrine has been changed into that of his divine perpetual inspiration,[12] giving him a power of disclosing new truths as infallibly as Peter and Paul. Dr. Pusey called this theory a kind of Llamaism, implying as it does a kind of hypostatic union of the Holy Ghost with each successive Pope....

And, consequently, a thoroughgoing Infallibilist like Manning, is consistently a foe to all candid historical investigation, as being really irreconcilable with faith in the Church's authority at the only hand which they believed had power to save them from it. - THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE CHURCH (1888 edition), GEORGE SALMON, D.D.; http://www.sounddoctrine.net/Classic_Sermons/George%20Salmon/infallibility_church.htm

Thus

“The real reason why I cannot be in communion with you [Catholics] is not my disagreement with this or that Roman doctrine [but see his quote at link below on disagreements with some Roman Catholic doctrines], but that to accept your Church means, not to accept a given body of doctrine, but to accept in advance any doctrine your Church hereafter produces. It is like being asked to agree not only to what a man has said but also to what he is going to say.”- C. S. Lewis, “Christian Reunion”, in Christian Reunion and Other Essays, edited by Walter Hooper, London: Collins, 1990, p. 17-18. http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.co m/2011/09/two-excellent-quotes-by-c-s-lewis-on.html)

We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..." "We have addressed to Catholic people, either collectively or individually; and above all, let them lay down for themselves as a Supreme Law, to yield obedience in all things to the teaching and Authority of the Church, in no narrow or mistrustful spirit, but with their whole soul and promptitude of will." - http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13praec.htm

CCC 882 For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.

Can. 1404 M The First See is judged by no one. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P5A.HTM

15. From this it must be clearly understood that Bishops are deprived of the right and power of ruling, if they deliberately secede from Peter and his successors; because, by this secession, they are separated from the foundation on which the whole edifice must rest. They are therefore outside the edifice itself; and for this very reason they are separated from the fold, whose leader is the Chief Pastor; they are exiled from the Kingdom, the keys of which were given by Christ to Peter alone..

Nor is it lawful to interpret in a different sense what was given to Peter alone, and what was given to the other Apostles conjointly with him....

wherefore Gelasius on the decrees of Councils says: "That which the First See has not approved of cannot stand; but what it has thought well to decree has been received by the whole Church... - — Leo XIII - Satis cognitum; http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html

Dictatus papae [1075] (a compilation of 27 statements of powers arrogated to the Pope that was included in Pope Gregory VII's register under the year 1075):

That of the pope alone all princes shall kiss the feet.

That a sentence passed by him may be retracted by no one; and that he himself, alone of all, may retract it. That he himself may be judged by no one. That no one shall dare to condemn one who appeals to the apostolic chair. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/g7-dictpap.asp

1,001 posted on 10/12/2014 6:02:31 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
“The real reason why I cannot be in communion with you [Catholics] is not my disagreement with this or that Roman doctrine [but see his quote at link below on disagreements with some Roman Catholic doctrines], but that to accept your Church means, not to accept a given body of doctrine, but to accept in advance any doctrine your Church hereafter produces. It is like being asked to agree not only to what a man has said but also to what he is going to say.”- C. S. Lewis, “Christian Reunion”, in Christian Reunion and Other Essays, edited by Walter Hooper, London: Collins, 1990, p. 17-18. http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.co m/2011/09/two-excellent-quotes-by-c-s-lewis-on.html)

Wait...THE C. S. Lewis, a really smart guy who didn't "pope"??? ;o)

I'm no intellectual, but I certainly agree with his reasons for rejecting the Pope of Rome's supposed infallibility and Catholicism's faulty defense of their unscriptural dogmas.

1,139 posted on 10/12/2014 2:37:57 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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