Posted on 10/08/2014 11:39:09 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
Why would intelligent, successful people give up their careers, alienate their friends, and cause havoc in their families...to become Catholic? Indeed, why would anyone become Catholic?
As an evangelist and author who recently threw my own life into some turmoil by deciding to enter the Catholic Church, I've faced this question a lot lately. That is one reason I decided to make this documentary; it's part of my attempt to try to explain to those closest to me why I would do such a crazy thing.
Convinced isn't just about me, though. The film is built around interviews with some of the most articulate and compelling Catholic converts in our culture today, including Scott Hahn, Francis Beckwith, Taylor Marshall, Holly Ordway, Abby Johnson, Jeff Cavins, Devin Rose, Matthew Leonard, Mark Regnerus, Jason Stellman, John Bergsma, Christian Smith, Kevin Vost, David Currie, Richard Cole, and Kenneth Howell. It also contains special appearances by experts in the field of conversion such as Patrick Madrid and Donald Asci.
Ultimately, this is a story about finding truth, beauty, and fulfillment in an unexpected place, and then sacrificing to grab on to it. I think it will entertain and inspire you, and perhaps even give you a fresh perspective on an old faith.
(Excerpt) Read more at indiegogo.com ...
If SR stopped casting his Pearls before Swine how would Catholics ever learn?
Sometimes I wonder if some of these people ever read the Bible. Where do these ideas come from? Seems like they lost their way if they ever had it. God bless.
Cathoics have been following Christ for 1,600 years before there was a protestant....we have ALWAYS led people to Christ,
Detestable rituals which include fondling and kissing desicated corpses does NOT lead people to Christ.
Your fellow posters have admitted that even if the Church was founded by Peter it has strayed far from the practices of the Apostles. Even Elvis would look at the vestments and bling and say “Dang, that’s gaudy!”
I love westerns. In one book by Johnstone, the hero shot some crooks. One was nearly dead and asked for a priest. The priest arrived and the crook said something like, “Father, I have sinned.”. The priest said, “you sure have” and walked away
good grief, obviously the office of the Pope changed over the years as the vatican evolved...the first Pope, Peter, was an original apostle and obviously was not adorned in any sort of a uniform. As the office progressed over the centuries, it was probably necessary to remove the toga and replace it with a more visible sign of authority over a huge group of Christians.
Are you saying the vestments and symbols of office aren’t very important? Would there be any problem if a group of Christians decided to forego the vestments?
Yep, deader than a door nail, just like everybody else.
Is this what Catholics do? Can you show us Catholics where this is recommended in the Catechism?
Because, as a practicing Catholics, this isn't something that I've ever seen a Catholic do, or heard a priest recommend.
You know, this kind of rhetoric comes across as a bit... hysterical. If I can make an analogy, it would be like a Catholic saying something like, "Protestants teach that kissing and fondling poisonous snakes leads one to Christ!"
Would that be a fair characterization of Protestantism?
Finally, FWIW, I found this in the Bible:
2 Kings 13:21I found this in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.
Popular pietyThat's the only mention of relics that I found.1674 Besides sacramental liturgy and sacramentals, catechesis must take into account the forms of piety and popular devotions among the faithful. The religious sense of the Christian people has always found expression in various forms of piety surrounding the Church's sacramental life, such as the veneration of relics, visits to sanctuaries, pilgrimages, processions, the stations of the cross, religious dances, the rosary, medals,180 etc.
1675 These expressions of piety extend the liturgical life of the Church, but do not replace it. They "should be so drawn up that they harmonize with the liturgical seasons, accord with the sacred liturgy, are in some way derived from it and lead the people to it, since in fact the liturgy by its very nature is far superior to any of them."
1676 Pastoral discernment is needed to sustain and support popular piety and, if necessary, to purify and correct the religious sense which underlies these devotions so that the faithful may advance in knowledge of the mystery of Christ. Their exercise is subject to the care and judgment of the bishops and to the general norms of the Church.
The following is from the Catholic Encyclopedia regarding the Council of Trent's teaching regarding relics:
"the holy bodies of holy martyrs and of others now living with Christ—which bodies were the living members of Christ and 'the temple of the Holy Ghost' (1 Corinthians 6:19) and which are by Him to be raised to eternal life and to be glorified are to be venerated by the faithful, for through these [bodies] many benefits are bestowed by God on men, [2 Kings 13:21] so that they who affirm that veneration and honour are not due to the relics of the saints, or that these and other sacred monuments are uselessly honoured by the faithful, and that the places dedicated to the memories of the saints are in vain visited with the view of obtaining their aid, are wholly to be condemned, as the Church has already long since condemned, and also now condemns them." Further, the council insists that "in the invocation of saints the veneration of relics and the sacred use of images, every superstition shall be removed and all filthy lucre abolished." Again, "the visitation of relics must not be by any perverted into revellings and drunkenness." To secure a proper check upon abuses of this kind, "no new miracles are to be acknowledged or new relics recognized unless the bishop of the diocese has taken cognizance and approved thereof."
Thank you, may God continue to bless you and yours.
Jesus chose Paul as an Apostle after rising from the dead. What would Paul say about immorality in the Church...?
1 Corinthians
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
Thanks for illustrating that you've interpreted it on your own.
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terycarl - do you, a Catholic, have "your own personal interpretation of scripture (YOPIOS)?
Narses, terycarl needs a cereal box!
Do you doubt God's ability to communicate with His chosen outside of your Catholic hierarchy?
When you bow to man made idols fashioned of wood, metal and stone and you place crowns of flowers on their heads and burn incense before them it looks mighty suspicious.
What really concerns me is the appearance of necromancy when Catholics parade about frolicking with and kissing severed, desiccated body parts and moldy skulls. Be honest, the practice is disturbing and quite unsanitary!
None of this pertains to the papacy per se. This is a wardrobe issue.
So this is Peter, eh??? He'll be a nail in a firm place??? So what happens when you actually read the whole thing in context??? And you include the verse you left out???
Isa 22:25 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
What's that all about in the reign of Peter and subsequent papal authority???
There it is: the keys, the delegation of authority, the opening and closing. The commentaries from Clark and the rest, here (LINK) are especially helpful --- and no, they're not Catholic commentaries. It is simply not debatable that the keys are the ensign of authority.
The fact is: the keys in Matthew were given to all the disciples and apostles...And they were not given for the entrance to heaven but the Kingdom of heaven...
And we can further see by comparing scripture with scripture, these keys are not just authority but authority of knowledge...
Luk_11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
This knowledge was revealed to Peter and the others alowing them to accept and reject souls into the Kingdom based on revealed knowledge from above...
Acts 6:8 Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, performed great wonders and signs among the people.
We have direct Greek words declaring Stephen "full of Grace" but not for Mary. Catholics don't declare Stephen sinless yet he is the only one clearly declared "full of grace".
Then you used the term "Panagia" a Greek word meaning "all holy". Really? Mary is " all holy"?
1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Oh c'mon now...You think everyone outside of Catholicism is ignorant of Christian history???
No one for 1500 years had the Greek in the original...Countless numbers of Christians were slaughtered for refusing to bow down to your Marian religion and its popes...
I think "my faith" would be a more accurate rendering, unless perhaps you are jointly posting with your spouse. It seems to me that you are a Catholic by your own admission.
No, as i am sure others likewise marvels at the seeming inability to conceive how we cannot follow such men as popes.
It is also seems to me that nonCatholic assemblies, especially Evangelical and Fundamentalists tend to be dominated by personality
They do have personalities, and which do have influence on the "personality" of the church, as is true in Rome, esp. of papal personality, but if meant like uncritically following men as popes, then that is a mark of a cult.
and evoke an authority/submission paradigm more than the Catholic Church where the designated clergy operate more as servants despite all appearances.
Typical Catholic contrivance, in which (conditional) assured infallibility is ascribed, and thus implicit submission to a man as if to a god is required, and even bowing to such (which Peter refused from a lost man and believers are never shown doing, as "all ye are brethren"), and the prelates under which are said to have God submitting them them, and are clothed in gaudy ostentatious clothing and lordy titles - against which the Lord warned - are said to be "servants versus masters to be served. In that sense the Caesars which medieval papacy was much patterned after were servants
VEHEMENTER NOS, Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906:
It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock, those who occupy a rank in the different degrees of the hierarchy and the multitude of the faithful. So distinct are these categories that with the pastoral body only rests the necessary right and authority for promoting the end of the society and directing all its members towards that end; the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors.
St. Ignatius once said that should the Pope command him to undertake a voyage by sea in a ship without a mast, without oars or sails, he would blindly obey the precept. And when he was told that it would be imprudent to expose his life to danger, he answered that prudence is necessary in Superiors; but in subjects the perfection of prudence is to obey without prudence. - St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p. 68 http://wallmell.webs.com/LiguoriTrueSpouseChristVol1.pdf
Catholic Encyclopedia>Kiss: The veneration shown in the kissing of a person's hand or the hem of his garment is accentuated in the kissing of the feet. This is probably implied by the phrase of Isaias (49:23): "Kings...shall lick up the dust of Thy feet." Under the influence, no doubt, of the ceremonial of king-worship, as manifested in the cultus of the Roman emperors, this particular mark of veneration came to prevail at an early date among the usages of the papal court
At the election of Leo IV (847) the custom of so kissing the pope's foot was spoken of as an ancient one... Innocent III explains that this ceremony indicates "the very great reverence due to the Supreme Pontiff as the Vicar of Him whose feet" were kissed by the woman who was a sinner. - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08663a.htm
That of the pope alone all princes shall kiss the feet.
That a sentence passed by him may be retracted by no one; and that he himself, alone of all, may retract it. That he himself may be judged by no one. That no one shall dare to condemn one who appeals to the apostolic chair. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/g7-dictpap.asp
As Peter was given a new name so does the new Supreme Pontiff become known by another. After the election he extends his first blessing to the people -- a Benediction which was not given in the open for years until Pope Pius XI established the custom.
The Coronation, one of the most magnificent of Vatican Ceremonies, takes place shortly after the election. With the Pope carried high in a golden chair and attended by brilliantly attired chamberlains and soldiers, the Coronation Mass is an unrivaled spectacle of beauty, dignity, and ancient pageantry. At the Coronation, in the midst of the pomp and splendor, a master of ceremonies recites in Latin: "Holy Father, thus does the glory of the world pass away." As the first Cardinal Deacon places the three-crowned Tiara on the head of the Pope, he says: "Receive the three-crowned Tiara, and know that thou are the Father of Princes and Kings, the Pastor of the earth, and Vicar of Jesus Christ, to Whom be honor and glory forever. Amen." The CORONATION of Pope Pius XII took place on the balcony of St. Peter's in March 1939. (From the book "The Vatican and Holy Year" by Stephen S. Fenichell & Phillip Andrews -- 1950 edition. http://www.users.qwest.net/~slrorer/ReunionOfChristendom.htm)
“With regard to the mystic body of Christ, that is, all the faithful, the priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from hell, of making them worthy of paradise, and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God. And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of his priests, and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it. " Such is," says St. Maximus of Turin, " this judiciary power ascribed to Peter that its decision carries with it the decision of God." 2 The sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it. .” – Dignity and Duties of the Priest, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, Vol. 12, p. 2 (whose writings were declared free from anything meriting censure by Pope Gregory XVL (1839) in the bull of his canonization). http://www.archive.org/stream/alphonsusworks12liguuoft/alphonsusworks12liguuoft_djvu.txt
The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating...Indeed, it is equal to that of Jesus Christ...When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man...Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary [who is said to be all but almighty herself]...The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command.
Of what sublime dignity is the office of the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the vice-gerent of Christ on earth! He continues the essential ministry of Christ: he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he pardons the penitent sinner with the power of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the name which spiritual writers are especially fond of applying to the priest is that of alter Christus. For the priest is and should be another Christ. (John A. O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., The Faith of Millions, 255-256 , O'Brien. Nihtt obstat: Rev. Lawrence Gollner, Censor Librorum Imprimatur: Leo A. Pursley, Bishop of Fort Wayne,-South Bend, March 16, 1974
I think we are seeing the lack of “infallibility” in the Catholic Church in the current meeting they are having. We are seeing the gradual distancing from scripture that has been going on in that organization for the last 2000 years.
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