Protecting God’s Word From “Bible Christians”

Crisis Magazine ^ | October 3, 2014 | RICHARD BECKER

[CynicalBear]

Oh the many pitfalls of following some “denomination” rather than scripture.

[ronnietherocket3]

No, Paul did not write in Greek, he could barely speak a few words in Greek. Everything he wrote was written in the language of Yehova.

The Greek translations, no two of which even agree with each other, are simply what predominantly survived Rome’s purge of what they knew to be God’s word, because it was written in the language that he commissioned.

Given that Matthew was likely written to the Jews and that Hebrews was specifically addressed to the Jews, an argument that those two books were written in Hebrew or Aramaic is reasonable. The problem with the rest of the NT being written in Hebrew is that they are all addressed to Gentile audiences, who would not speak Hebrew. It would be very odd for Jesus to ordain Paul as the Apostle to the Gentiles if he spoke little Greek.

[CynicalBear]

>>Were you ever taught that she was divine? Were you ever taught that she was due worship or taught to worship her?<<

"Actions speak louder then words" comes to mind. Catholics after all do like Jame's "I'll show you my faith by my works". I can assure you that watching their " works" one can easily see that their faith is in Mary.

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

I am pretty sure that David suffered: 2 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

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So why does the priest prescribe “ten ‘Our Fathers’ and ten ‘Hail Marys’” instead of thirty lashes? After all, you believe we need to “suffer” for forgiveness.

You really should learn the concepts of “grace” and “mercy.”

[ronnietherocket3]

The problem with purgatory is that it can’t contribute to the forgiveness of sins.
Suffering does not result in forgiveness because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
The shedding of blood is the ONLY means by which forgiveness is granted.

So at the very least, purgatory is useless, meaningless suffering.

Purgatory is penalty for sins committed on Earth but not sins for which penance has been done. The point of Purgatory is not forgiveness, but purification.

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

The Catholic Church came before the gospels. End of subject. Move on.

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I wish you would hold at least half the reverence for Jesus that you have for the Catholic Church.

Where your heart is you’ll find what you treasure.

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

These Catholics sound exactly like the Pharisees.

[CynicalBear]

I think Catholics believe you earn grace and mercy.

[Rides_A_Red_Horse]

Don’t you constantly bring up “It is finished... What is finished?”

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If you believed in Jesus you would accept “It is Finished” and then you wouldn’t need purgatory.

[NKP_Vet]

Without the Catholic Church, FOUNDED by Christ, you would have idea who Christ is. You will still be praying to the sun gods.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

I wish you would hold at least half the reverence for Jesus that you have for the Catholic Church.

Reverence for Christ's Church is reverence for Jesus.

To reject the Authority of Christ's Church is to reject the Authority of Christ.

Christ identifies Himself with His Church.

Jesus said to Saul, "why do you persecute me?"

That's why Jesus said to those who reject the authority of His Church, "if he will not listen to the Church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector."

Paul tells us that the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth," and that It is "the Body of Christ."

What subject did Jesus preach on the most? The fact that He was establishing a Kingdom. There are 155 mentions of "Kingdom" in the New Testament.

[CynicalBear]

You might want to consider which religion has the most sunburst symbols in it’s religious rituals.

[CynicalBear]

>>Christ identifies Himself with His Church.<<

The fallacy that the Catholic Church is that body is fiction and a lie of Satan.

[ronnietherocket3]

Try reading John’s first epistle. Love will not permit transgression of Torah, as he that loves Yeshua follows his commandments.

Hebrews (10) states that the Law has a Shadow of good things to come. It then states that the first is abolished to establish the second.

Your simplistic attempt at avoidance of obedience is comic book theology, and theology of any kind is contrary to the word of God.

Do you have anything from the Bible to back up the claim that theology is contrary to the Word of God?

[Springfield Reformer]

Hi verga.  MM is right on with categories here.  The suffering of chastisement is of great value to one who is already a child of God, and a living person, not dead. But to those who have died unredeemed, suffering is either pure retribution for sin, or simply the inescapable, natural consequence of the absence of God's favor, but in any case final, and not a system of progressive remediation (cf. purgatory as an analog to reincarnation and it's adverse theological consequences). But I am unaware of any place in the Scriptures we share in common where it is presented as remedial for those who have passed from this life (even those in a supposed "state of grace," which is double-speak, because what good is a partial grace that provides no relief from the full measure of guilt?) :

Heb 9:27-28  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:  (28)  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

So the model we have for the atonement, the death of Christ, and the judgment for our sin in Him, is based on the general model of dying once, then facing judgment, for all of humanity.  But for the fact that our judgment as believers was already executed in the execution of Christ, we would upon death stand naked before God with no excuse for our sin, no mitigation of our just punishment for it, and no remediation offered, no relief from guilt in a million lifetimes of suffering, but only judgment, just as the writer of Hebrews says.

Peace,

SR

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

If you believed in Jesus you would accept “It is Finished” and then you wouldn’t need purgatory.

There's a difference between Christ's atoning death, our personal salvation, and our personal sanctification.

2 Maccabees

39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his companions went to gather up the bodies of the fallen and bury them with their kindred in their ancestral tombs.

40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen.

41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.

42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.

43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind;

44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.

45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.

46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.

Yes, Luther removed 2 Maccabees from his Bible because of its support for the practice of praying for the dead, and its support for the Church's doctrine of Purgatory.

But Luther couldn't erase the fact that this is a historical Jewish practice that continues to this day with the Orthodox Jews.

Is Purgatory a Catholic Invention?

[verga]

And of course that was a word never before used and should fully be credited to the Catholic Church right??

Finally a 1005 accurate and honest answer form a prot. Thank you I knew one of you would stumble over it eventually.

The trick is now going to see if you can remember this and correct other prots when they say otherwise.

[CynicalBear]

I suppose for those comprehension challenged I should have included the sarcasm tag.

[verga]

Post 164

[CynicalBear]

Actions speak louder than words.