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To: boatbums

No, this kind of tossing of scriptural quotations from here and there does not work. This is why we have Biblical anarchy from what “you” think is the Word of God as does Daivd Koresh. “You” have no basis for authoritative interpretation as does your uncle or mine or Jim Jones or anybody’s grandmother. This would end up in interminable scriptural debates.

Try having Rev. Moon, the Mormons, Billy Graham, Jehovah’s Witnesses and a David Koresh in the same room.

Books in Scripture were not simply “RECEIVED” like leaves falling from the skies. This is for simpletons.

They were the product of years of laborious sorting out by reference to a number of sources like the oral tradition, rituals, customs, and the interpretation of the Aramaic and Greek texts by the early Church fathers. Perhaps, if you had a rigorous theological training rather than playing street theologian you will understand and not engage in risible statements of this kind.

The supremacy of Petrine authority has been established by a long line of eminent scholars at different points in history, to say nothing of eminent theologians in the Protestant world who converted to Catholicism. You keep burying your head in the sand and engage in linguistic textual games. This is not about “swallowing up” everything a religious leader says. That’s for the stuff spouted out by your Billy Grahams, Osteens, Swaggarts, Schullers, Jeremah Wrights.

No, the divine authority of the Church results in ONE truth reflected in one Catechism, with a single Credo. Even the days of Christmas, Good Friday, and Easter are established by the Catholic Julian and Gregorian calendars. If you disagree go choose your own dates.

Everything else is mush because it is one’s “own” interpretation resulting in multiple faiths. Go tell the Mormons that they got it wrong in their “study of the Scriptures God gave us and be able to discern truth from error.”


149 posted on 09/27/2014 8:27:32 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish
That's just it...there hasn't been any "tossing" of Scriptural quotations but a use of God's word to specifically teach what God intended us to know about our faith. You think there wasn't any "anarchy" or heresy in the first century Christian experience? The leaders of the believers used what had been given to them BY the Apostles - the word of God - to combat the errors that sprang up against the truth. You think there aren't any "scriptural debates" within the Roman Catholic church today? Think again. There have always been and always will be until Christ returns disagreements and debates over Scriptural truth. Having church leadership helps to define and defend the truth - be the foundation and support of it, not INVENT it. The major tenets of the Christian faith remain the SAME as they were from the start.

Tossing out the names of non-Catholics - as if you could honestly mean that Billy Graham is no different than Koresh, Jones or Joseph Smith - is just so much theatrics. Any Christian who knows the Scriptures could defend the truths of the Christian faith against any number of heretics. To presume ONLY the Roman Catholic magesterium has the authority or knowledge to debate and defeat error is awfully shortsighted and limiting of God. It is defeated today in the same way it was that first century - by the word of God.

Books in Scripture were not simply “RECEIVED” like leaves falling from the skies. This is for simpletons. They were the product of years of laborious sorting out by reference to a number of sources like the oral tradition, rituals, customs, and the interpretation of the Aramaic and Greek texts by the early Church fathers. Perhaps, if you had a rigorous theological training rather than playing street theologian you will understand and not engage in risible statements of this kind.

Who taught you such nonsense? Do you do any study outside of Roman Catholic websites? Saying the early church "received" the epistles of Scripture from the Apostles is hardly saying they dropped down like leaves from the sky! Do you even read what you write? What do you think happened when Paul or Peter, for example, wrote the letters they did under Divine inspiration and then instructed the churches scattered throughout to read them to the people, study them and OBEY what they wrote? Did these individual church leaders (because there WAS no over all Pope) say, "Well, hold on there, Paul. We'll have to take a look at this and get back to you a few hundred years from now."? NO! The Apostles were writing down the teachings (traditions) as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance and passing them on in a form that could be copied and disseminated to as wide an audience as possible. Here's a little help so you can get a better understanding on how we got the Scriptures The Formation of the New Testament Canon and The Formation of the Canon of the New Testament.

It boils down to, yes, AUTHORITY. You believe the Roman Catholic church (it's leadership) is your only authority and whatever they tell you they decided is the truth, you will believe it. It doesn't matter to you how they arrived at it, only that if they said it, you obey. Right? So, on the subject of the assumption of Mary, it doesn't concern you that there is no Apostolic teaching or Biblical source for the dogma, it doesn't matter that it didn't even become a mandatory article of the Catholic faith until nearly two thousand years AFTER the Apostles all died, only that your Pope spoke and you believe it. Is that correct?

Does it concern you at all that prior popes called such a belief heresy? That may be perfectly dandy for you and no problem at all, but it's not good enough for me. I believe God gave us the Scriptures for a reason - so that we could know what is binding upon a believer. The Roman Catholic church is under that SAME authority. Like I said, you want to believe Mary was assumed into heaven bodily? Go for it. I don't. I will obey God rather than man.

159 posted on 09/27/2014 9:39:29 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Steelfish; boatbums
OK, let's try this again.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 John 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit -- just as it has taught you, remain in him.

1 Corinthians 2:9-14 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" -- but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now, why don't you show us from scripture why that doesn't mean what it says.

198 posted on 09/28/2014 3:11:36 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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