THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries

christiantruth.com ^ | William Webster

[ronnietherocket3]

There is also testimony from among many Jewish Rabbis that all of the original Hebrew versions of the entire NT have been preserved in their archives.

Is this the same group of Rabbis that taught Purgatory, Classical Semicha (the Jewish equivalent of Apostolic Tradition), binding rabbinic authority, that God has Oral Revelation as well as written Revelation, the intercession of the tzaddikim (Jewish equivalent of Prayer to Departed Saints), that had a Nasi (head Rabbi)? Or is this a different group of rabbis?

[boatbums]

No, the phrase “itinerant preacher” has a derogatory ring to it as some aimless wonderer.

Maybe to you. That Jesus WAS, in fact, a "street preacher" who spoke to crowds where ever and whenever he could and he was NOT a specific pastor of a specific church, then he WAS an itinerant preacher like his cousin, John the Baptizer as well as Peter, Paul, Andrew, Thomas, etc.. It didn't make any of them "aimless wanderers". They each had a God-ordained mission that took them many places and they fulfilled their roles.

[boatbums]

Sorry you’re feeling bad. I’m praying for you.

[Springfield Reformer]

No, the phrase “itinerant preacher” has a derogatory ring to it as some aimless wonderer.

Oh my friend, how utterly wrong you are. Some of the sweetest, saintliest men of God that ever lived were itinerant preachers. Circuit riders, often called, because being itinerant just means having somewhere to go, by careful planning, and regularity, just like Jesus and Paul, only with horses, and not your supposed aimless wandering, which is nothing but a fiction. Some of our American circuit riders were instruments of God in the Second Great Awakening, among whom I can count one of my great great grandfathers. Godly men whose sincere and powerful preaching of the word by the Spirit of God brought the light of the Gospel to rich and poor, in the cities and the mountains, famous generals, humble shopkeepers, wherever they were needed, men who were twice as poor as average poor preachers, having no steady place to call home and care for a family of their own. But they cared for the family of God, and they will have their reward accordingly.

Peace,

SR

[ronnietherocket3]

Revelation 12 speaks of the constellation Bethula, and the 12 stars of the constellation Ariel beyond it, and the new moon at Bethula’s feet.

First hit on a google search for the word Bethula turned up this page, which identifies Bethulah as a virgin, and we have a woman giving birth. How this is not Mary, I fail to understand.

Mary was never mentioned in the entire Revelation.

Correction: she was not mentioned by name.

This is a sign in the heavens that is being given for believers to watch for.

Believers are to watch for a sign involving stars? Please explain the difference between this and Astrology.

[caww]

....”There IS no Scriptural proof for Purgatory”....

Well like many of their worn out traditions, beliefs etc. it was a great money maker for them. ..all they had to do was create a venue , ( in the air no less), so the coffers could be filled.

[Springfield Reformer]

Ping to 1104, and howdy!

[ronnietherocket3]

This says the woman had other offspring.

Catholics say Mary was ever virgin and had no other children.

Unlike the male child destined to rule all nations, it does not identify how they became her children. Catholic Doctrine maintains that Mary is the mother of Catholics.

[ronnietherocket3]

I see no reason to believe it establishes the Sole Infallible Authority of Scripture. How can you say that? What other transcendent Infallible Authority do see in Scripture? Do you see the words of ex cathedra statements as wholly inspired of God and the transcendent Infallible Authority thru the Bible since the giving of the Law? No you cannot. I only see one question in post 825 It is basically one, but each presupposition can be dealt with as a question. A better description is that they are stubborn children in need of compassion rather in rebellion against God. They need compassion because they are wrong, as the preceding statements of the RC argument are correct? Can you prove it is a tradition of men? Indeed, since it is not a promise or a testimony of Mary found in Scripture, and Rome teaches it as a tradition, and its absence is contrary to the practice of the Holy Spirit who is care-full to provide such notable events, or promises. And her crowning is contrary to Scripture as no one will be crowned in Heaven till the Lord returns. (1Cor. 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4)

The entirety of this post starts off with the assumption that Sola Scriptura is true. I have seen no reason to believe that it is.

[ronnietherocket3]

If the work is denounced as heretical, then why is the Catholic church using it to support its doctrine of the assumption of Mary?

What is the basis of it being heretical? IIRC, the work in question taught that it was written by John the Apostle. Since we have no evidence of writings from John other than the Gospel, 1,2,3 John and Revelation, this would lean towards its claims of being written by an Apostle false and so heresy. It does not establish that every claim made in the work is heresy.

[caww]

Well so what...even IF every word you stated was true...Jesus has a rightful solution.....

....”if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”.......Acts5:39

[ronnietherocket3]

If so; Joseph Smith may play a big part in your future.

IIRC, Joseph Smith preached that there had been a great Apostasy in the fourth century in the Church that lead to the true Church being destroyed. This directly contradicts my belief that there was no great Apostasy and that the Catholic Church dates back to Christ. Joesph Smith will play no role in my future; however, his belief in a great Apostasy appears to be similar to the Protestant position.

[redleghunter]

I went to a Catholic university. Given the liberalism they taught there, I will take a pass on such “intellectual thought.”

No Christian takes seriously the bold liberalism taught at Catholic Universities anymore than the oral traditions and “visions” of Joseph Smith.

[ronnietherocket3]

NYer on post 911 said they all spoke Aramaic...

NYer said they spoke Aramaic; I gave my reason for why the NT was written in Greek. How are we on different pages?

[mlizzy]

First, since you're all Christians pinged here, I'd humbly ask that you all pray that my tinnitus be taken away by our Lord and God Jesus Christ. It's very bad today, like a scream of a steam whistle in my head. For this fact also, any omissions/mistakes (or even curt attitude) here are mine, and shouldn't be taken as evidence of Catholic deficiency.

Severe tinnitus is my "gift" too. I'm sure you've offered it up.....

Rosary in my hand overnight
all the Aves I recite
will be for your condition

God be with you, FourtySeven. Suffering is so very hard to do.

[ronnietherocket3]

>>Proof of this fact has been posted here many times.<< No it hasnt. The only thing that has been proven is conjecture and that those who participate in it don't believe God kept His word to preserve His word for "all generations".

I believe Islam teaches that the original versions of scripture were lost or destroyed.

[ronnietherocket3]

Can you please point me to which post (or posts) have established how the woman in Rev. 12 IS Mary?

Earlier I posted the following:
The description that the woman will bear a son destined to rule all nations. I can think of two women who can claim this Israel and Mary. However, Rev 12 describes the devil as trying to sweep her away with the flood. The flood did not touch the woman. The flood could kill the woman by drowning her in sin (sin is the mechanism by which the devil cuts us off from God). However the flood (sin) does not touch the woman. It likely is not Israel as well read Hosea. However, thank you for the Immaculate Conception.

and:The claim that Mary has other children does not disprove the Perpetual Virginity. It is the Catholic position that she is the Mother of all Christians. What would either disprove this woman is Mary or the Perpetual Virginity is a description that she bore the children from her womb. This passage only describes one child as being born of her womb.

[xone]

That would be the poster af_vet_1981

You should ping him.

[caww]

....”brag on intellectual superiority, and attempt to denigrate others based on that”.....

That is part of catholicism though.....the teachings themse;ves cannot help but ‘create’ this sense of superiority, of which many of their traditions/beliefs are “rooted”....and that from it's integration with Rome through it's integration with the International Governing Bodies today.

It's not just a religious organization..it's a huge financial network and money laundering agency...which of recent their own Vatican banker got in over his head.

[Steelfish]

Fine, but please don’t refer to Christ as an “itinerant preacher.” It conjures images of anyone with white robe, bare feet, long hair and beard, like Indian shamans going about preaching their “own” interpretations of Scripture adding to Biblical anarchy.

The “Second Great Awakening” was an American version of this. We have a disparate assortment of individuals with no common credo at the forefront of a movement that mixed a Protestant reformation ideal with political issues like seeking temperance reforms and abolitionists who strived for the downfall of slavery.

Groups like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses all had this “itinerant” moment such as Brigham Young’s wagon trail. These are all heretical beliefs that led the great English essayist Hillaire Belloc to write in his book “The Great Heresies” that unlike other heresies, Protestantism “spawned a cluster of heresies.”

Petrine authority is not given to anyone and everyone to go teach anything and everything. Christ singled out one person Peter upon whom He founded His One Church, and solemnly bestows on Peter and His successors One authority to instruct in One truth. For those of us who believe in Petrine authority based on reason and faith, on oral and written traditions, on ritual and practice, and on divine revelation, (all such factors that went into the early Church fathers who sorted the books we call the Bible), apart from Catholicism, the rest is all apostasy.