Posted on 09/18/2014 6:56:55 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
And Isaac intreated the Lord for his wife, because she was barren: and the Lord was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the Lord. And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.(Genesis 25:21-23)
In our last article we established the fact that though the Bible doesn’t mention the world religion of Islam by name, the revelation of God, given to the Hebrew prophets certainly anticipates it. The prophecies of the scripture revolve around three related subjects, Israel, the Messiah Jesus, and the Eschaton, (last things, end times).
Every other subject in prophecy is incidental to these things. Any people groups or events are prophesied to the extent that they are related to any or all of the above three subjects.
The first Biblical connection with the religion which would one day dominate one out of five people in the world and posture itself as the ultimate rival to the Judeo Christian civilization, is in the story of Abraham,Ishmael and Isaac.
The Muslim faith takes upon itself the offense and resentment of Hagar and Ishmael, who thought that they had been disenfranchised and their pre-eminent position as the fist born of Abraham usurped by Isaac, the actual child of God’s promise, having been born of barren and aged parents, Abram and Sarai.
In Islamic scripture Abraham and Ishmael build Mecca and visit the Kaaba there together. The Muslims have an annual feast to commemorate the sacrifice of Ishmael to Abraham’s God.In the Koranic account everything is told from Ishmael’s point of view.
The revelation of God to Moses in Genesis continues to anticipate the rise of Islam, in the story of Isaac’s twins, Jacob and Esau. Rebecca, Isaac’s wife had been having trouble in pregnancy, an unusual amount of movement in the womb. The answer from the LORD?
Two nations are struggling in your womb…
The surface answer would be that the prophecy is that of the future of the nations of Israel and of Edom. Edom, the firstborn, became a well established nation with a long line of Kings long before the sons of Jacob emerged from slavery in Egypt. Israel was forged into a nation through the Exodus and subsequent history. The two nations were bitter and constant rivals.
…Two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels…
I believe that this indicates something more than a mere repetition. This prophecy echoes the ‘seed of the woman prophecy’ of Genesis 3 in which there are two distinct ideas expressed.
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.(Genesis 3:15)
There is a corporate seed of the woman, ever at odds with a corporate seed of the serpent. Humanity would either be in an affinity with the serpent or with the (now believing) woman. Those in affinity with the serpent, who share in the unrepentant pride and God rejecting arrogance of the devil will ever persecute those who come to some kind of fear of God and faith in the ultimate triumph of good over evil.
There is also an individual seed of the woman, the Messiah, a virgin born Saviour, who has been appointed by God to crush the Serpent’s head , though not without pain and suffering (He shall bruise thy heel).Eventually the individual ‘seed of the serpent’ will emerge also, who is destined to lead the final rebellion, and to be destroyed at the apocalypse of our Saviour.
In the prophecy of Jacob and Esau we see the same double meaning. Two nations, Edom and Israel shall be rivals and at odds with each other.
But the prophecy to Rebecca maintains that two manner of people will emerge.
Subsequent history has confirmed this to be true.Currently about half of the population of the earth is Monotheistic, divided almost equally between Judeo Christianity, and Islam. Two manner of people, with two radically different worldviews.
The religion of Jacob, based upon the revelation of the God of the Bible, has developed into Judaism, and Christianity and thus God brought many nations into the Judeo Christian influence. There are more than a billion people today who consider themselves either Jewish or Christian.
Esau and Ishmael’s line intermarried, and religiously progressed from polytheistic paganism, into a stage of Jewish proselytism, and eventually many of the descendents of Esau became Christian. But ultimately Islam came to dominate the Middle East, and the Arab neighbors of Israel for the most part became Muslims. They in turn would spread Islam throughout the world by conquest.
Thus two powerful spiritual nations have emerged, the Ummah of Islam and Judeo Christian civilization. One would be stronger than the other, but Esau would ultimately be made to serve Jacob, either voluntarily by conversion, or involuntarily by subjugation of culture. This struggle would define the future course of history, until the very end of times.
'Actually' scholars more learned than us have dispelled and clarified this inaccuracy:
http://parsha.blogspot.com/2007/11/toledot-is-edom-equal-to-rome-and.html
And know that Edom mentioned in the Torah and other holy books {of Tanach} refers to the nation which dwells between the Reed Sea and the Dead Sea, and it was never the intent to refer to the kingdom of Rome nor any of the nations of Europe. And all of the days the First Temple stood, and the Second {Temple}, the only one called Edom were the actual descendants of Esav. However, after the destruction of the {second} Temple, the Jews began to call the kingdom of Rome by the name Edom. And this was because in general, the Edomites tormented Israel, and therefore the name Edom was hated and detested by us. And specifically, after the Herod reigned, who was an Edomite who was very bad to Israel. And when the Temple was destroyed at the hands of the Romans, the hatred of the Jews passed from Edom to Rome. Therefore (and also because of fear), they nicknamed Rome with the name Edom. And the intent is not at all to the people of the new faith {=Christians}, but rather to the Roman empire which destroyed our Temple, and to all the places that their rule and language extended.
And do not listen to the words of Ibn Ezra who said that the people of the new faith are called Edom because the first ones who believed in the Nazarene were from the people of Edom. For this is falsehood and lies, for the first one who believed in the Nazarene were Jews, Greeks, and Romans, not Edomites. And the name Edom is a nickname for the Romans and to other nations from the aspect that they were, in those days, under Roman rule, and not because of their {Christian} faith.
ודע כי אדום האמור בתורה ובשאר ספרי הקודש הוא עם השוכן בין ים סוף וים המלח, ומעולם אין הכוונה על מלכות רומי ולא על אחד מגויי אירופה, וכל ימי עמידת הבית הראשון והשני לא נקראו בשם אדום רק בני עשו ממש, אבל אחר חרבן הבית החלו היהודים לקרוא למלכות רומי בשם אדום, והיה זה מפני שהאדומים היו על הרוב צוררים ישראל, על כן היה שם אדום שנוא ומתועב אצלנו, ובפרט אחר שמלך הורדוס שהיה אדומי הרע לישראל מאד, וכשנחרב הבית ביד הרומאים, עברה שנאת היהודים מאדום לרומי, על כן (וגם מפני היראה) כינו את רומי בשם אדום ; ואין הכוונה כלל על בעלי האמונה החדשה, אלא על מלכות רומי שהחריבה את ביתנו, ועל כל המקומות שפשטה שם מלכותם ולשונם. ואל תשמע לדברי ראב"ע שאמר כי בעלי האמונה החדשה נקראו אדום מפני שהראשונים שהאמינו בנוצרי היו מבני אדום ; כי אמנם כל זה שקר וכזב, כי הראשונים שהאמינו בנוצרי היו יהודים ויונים ורומאים, לא אדומים, ושם אדום הוא כינוי לרומאים ולעמים אחרים מצד שהיו בימים ההם תחת ממשלת הרומאים, ולא מצד אמונתם.
Like I said before, go talk to the rabbis.
I prefer scripture
From an Esavist point of view, sure.
From a Yaakovist (Jacobist) point of view there is waaaaayyyyyyy more to the story. Think Paul Harvey!
The judeo christian ‘worked view’ has led to Hollywood, porn and music industries to be headquartered in the leading judeo christian nation..
And apparently that much more advanced civilization compared to Islam has slaughtered 55 million unborn children at the altar of freedom and liberty...
Maybe neither represent His Kingdom..
There are lots of believers who like their man made holy days like July 4th, and celebrate their freedom and liberty given to them by the god of this world that Hollywood, porn, music and abortion industries celebrate at the same time...
Aren’t the end times supposed to be different from now with 1 worldwide language, 1 religion [Sundays enforced?] and 1 monetary system?
From my limited understanding either the civilized world, God, or more likely both will end up killing off the fanatical muslims thereby ending this satanic religion.
Some amount of time later the remaining non-christian religious systems will be eliminated somehow too?
No my friend, it is the repudiation of the Judeo Christian worldview which has led to the evil you outlined. THe cultural revolution of the last two centuries, fueled by godless atheism, and secular humanism has overtaken the formerly Judeo Christian west.
‘Jews and Christians’ that live in America enjoy the god of this world’s freedom and liberty right along with the atheists and other faiths. and that freedom and liberty gets pumped into godless areas not yet fully ‘blessed’ with that secular humanism which is the true state run religion of america..
It is not the freedom and liberty the Messiah brings..
But July 4th is a holy day..
And it sort of explains why december 25 and easter are holy days too..
The absolute freedom and liberty that the Messiah brings, is wrapped up in salvation. Obviously no one is saying America is saved. What I am saying is that the Judeo Christian input into our western civilization is what made it great, and to the extent that there is freedom and liberty here, it is a gift of that background. We all know that as the USA retreats and repudiates the Judeo Christian input, we become more and more bound and yes pagan(holidays).
Babylon was great.
Medes Persia was great.
Greece was great.
Rome was great.
Mystery Babylon is great.
Maybe judeo christianity is not standing in opposition to babylon. Maybe, in fact, they are feeding and leading the beast..just like Islam is..
I have no doubt that is true. As I said, there is a massive ,longstanding defection from anything Judeo or Christian about our culture. BTW I have never stated that there was anything like a JUDEO CHRistian empire, as Babylon,Medo Persia,Greece or Rome. The last extension of the Roman Empire is currently being played out in the west.
And the judeos are following that system just as much as the rest of the world..
Rosh hashanah is the next example- they are starting their new month on the 29th day of the previous month, on a dark ‘invisible’ moon.
And because of starting it a day under a dark moon and not at a new moon, they are going to have yom Kippur a day early.
That calculation is really based on their pope appointed weekly sabbath day of Saturn’s day -as if they started the count on the right day, they would have their weekly sabbath bump up right next to Yom Kippur( that would really be on Gregorian October 5, a sun’s day.)
They can’t have two ‘sabbaths’ back to back, but if they followed Scripture and not Rome, they would not have to calculate or postpone or suspend holy days because of conflicts with their pope appointed sabbath..
Millions of observers off by a day for what they consider their holiest day of the calendar..because the world’s system is more important than His Word..
In a counterfeit world, that makes complete sense..
It’s about descendants and not real estate. There’s much more about descendants of Esau beyond Genesis. Descendants of Japeth will also be involved in attacking Jerusalem (Meshech and Tubal, Gomer, Togarmah, all of the people from the extreme north and all of their associates), and all will be destroyed. Look into a study of those descendants and their migrations over time.
Few of those descendants are Muslims, although Persia, Cush and Put will be with them. In politics, we’re already seeing the alliance slowly forming between the West, Persia and its other Shiite associates along with a growing adoration of Russia. Those behind ISIS will probably be brought into the magog-western anti-Israel coalition afterward.
Have fun. Enjoy the slide, shake, rattle and roll.
Thank you for mentioning this. Based on your tip I found a link to the audio version of the book and have been listening to it all day - very interesting stuff!
https://archive.org/details/JoelRichardson-TheIslamicAntichrist
Read more about authentic, historical chrstianity (early Roman, Eastern, etc.) all the way through the Medieval. What the Puritans, Huguenots, all, did while migrating to early America to escape European religion, was to get a little closer before drifting back to what they ran from (what those who see, are seeing now).
It’s a reversion to what it was. Even with the cheerleading and political action for Iran, Russia, geo-fluctuations, robberies through implicating defamations gossiped by the elite, economic deposition coming and all, most are blind to what is happening. Also see Lilith in Edom in Isaiah 34. She and Jezebel: somethin’ else.
Isaiah 43:11
Zechariah 14:9
Malachi 3:6
What I sent you before is from a rabbinical source.
Your response is elusive. Rabbis frequently argue among themselves.
Your post about Esau, Edom and Rome is rubbish.
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