Posted on 09/12/2014 6:28:11 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
According to Latter-Day Saints (LDS, Mormon) President Orson Hyde, Jesus was married to several women, including Mary Magdalene, and had biological children.
"..[In John 2,] Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do. Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. ... We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. ... I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me. ... I shall say here, that before the Savior died, he looked upon his own natural children, as we look upon ours; he saw his seed, and immediately afterwards he was cut off from the earth; but who shall declare his generation?"
-- Hyde, at the Mormon General Conference, on 6 October 1854. (Printed in Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 82.)
Apparently, this position had support from Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Orson Pratt, and others.
The LDS organization has since denied these claims. A spokesman said, "The belief that Christ was married has never been official Church doctrine. It is neither sanctioned nor taught by the Church. While it is true that a few Church leaders in the mid-1800s expressed their opinions on the matter, it was not then, and is not now, Church doctrine."
Still, Hyde's is an allowed position within Mormonism. That is concerning.
Of course, Christ is the figurative Bridegroom -- but He is not so literally, in a carnal sense! Also, for the record, the "seed" of His mentioned in Isaiah 53:10 refers to our spiritual relationship with Him, in the sense of John 12:24 and Galatians 3:26.
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Yes. The idea really merits nothing more than laughter.
//How would that take away from Jesus as part of the trinity?/
Because God is not a man, he is God. And Jesus could not sin, being married considering he knew he was going to die and the status of widows and orphans would have been selfishn which would have been a sin.
It is insane to think Jesus had children, Jesus was FULLY God, AND fully human, not one of us, but unique. There is no reason to believe he would have had children, but if He had he could not have been sinless.
//Joseph Smith was a Protestant. He then went off and began his own “reformation.” There is no difference between Smith, Luther, Calvin etc...//
Wrong again, you don’t know LDS history or early 19th Century US religious history either.. Smith was never a protestant, he was an occultist with a father and grandfather who were Universalists as well. He never belonged to any church growing up.
And he didn’t begin a ‘reformation’ he claimed a RESTORATION. There are several restoration groups that come out New York in then mid 19th century. None are protestant or classify themselves as such. They consider themselves to be a restoration of Christianity from before the time (in their word) the Catholics corrupted it.
I can provide sources. You are lumping groups together that are not the same and showing your ignorance of the facts. Furthermore, you own Catholic church does not classify them as the same. And yes, since Vatican II all Protestant baptism are accepted, Mormons however are not. Those who do not use the Trinitarian formula are not protestants either.
That they are
Posse? 7 FReepers most of whom posted here? Its called witnesses to Catholic argumentation and lack thereof. You are being exposed, but it was your choice.
Well, you can do a lot with commonalities. Like saying there is no difference between Peter and Jim Jones as they are both sinners, but ignoring important distinctions, starting with salvation.
The "New Apostolic Church" Does not use a Trinitarian formula, they are an offshoot of Lutheranism, and are quite protestant. The Catholic Church does not accept their baptism.
What kind of people does Mormonism produce? In my experience, overall, Mormons are better people than your average person.
How am I wrong?
Miss read what dear boy....it appears in every post that is what you are saying
You suggest "Mormons are better people than your average person". What data do you have for that? How have you defined your terms?
If I accept you basic premises, one has to ask how it was so many of the early followers of Mormonism fell away. Why has there been so much contradiction, so many "corrective" changes to Mormon writings? Why have Mormon writings in libraries had to be clandestinely replaced many times? That doesn't bespeak great things arising from Mormonisms inception or frankly, throughout its history.
I would quickly understand, however, that whatever led you to believe your assertion that arose from your "experience" was related to things that happened roughly within your lifetime, or slightly backwards into the previous generation.
I went as a young man to Salt Lake City to see the temple grounds there and the displays, and the Tabernacle. It was supremely impressive. I was very much uplifted, as I'm sure many Mormons are on a regular basis upon re-experiencing such positive messages about Mormonism. I was very tantalized to join the LDS and become a Mormon, as the atmosphere was rather overwhelmingly positive. Since that time and visit, I've seen some of the internal supports within stakes and the international accomplishments. That was sufficiently positive for me to understand that there are many good things at work within the Mormon community.
I've done genealogical research and appreciated the dedication of what must have been tens of thousands of researchers doing things in that area that, had they not been done, the world would've been a lot poorer historically. As a result, many millions of people have been able to appreciate their families more completely, which strengthened those bonds with other family members and their histories.
I do see that many if not most Mormons have a verve and joy for their work.
All those are likeable traits, and I'm confident God does not hate Mormons' sins any more than He hates the sins of all that love Him and His revelation commit.
To have Jesus as our Savior is to have the correct object of our veneration and worship. Such is not possible without the New Testament revealed mysteries, which claim about themselves that nothing should be added or taken away. Notwithstanding, there have been others, not of the apostles' flock, that would be influenced by Jesus' teachings (and the New Testament).
The Mormon messages about God and Jesus have theologically and doctrinally been so perverted that few Mormons can see the forest for the motes in placed in their eyes by Mormon teachings.
If you would try to say that God has blessed Mormons, I will say He's blessed all believers and works all things to their good.
About Joseph Smith, he made demonstrably false claims that still have their workings in Mormonism. As Deuteronomy 18:20 was written thousands of years ago, " But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. Some 40 years before he prophesied "In the Name of the Lord God" Jesus would return only when Smith was 85, Smith's life was violently taken after he was jailed for having his followers destroy the local newspaper production facility, whose only offense was factual yet a personally embarrassing one for Smith: to report that Smith practiced and preached polygamy.
HF
My Jewish boss and friend has told me there are 613 Jewish laws one has to keep in order to go to heaven. If you live in Israel then it's automatic.
I'm not sure if he was joking or not.
Good summation.
Thank God for 'all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light." (Ephesians 5:13)
But how far short i come in having single eyes/heart for Christ, who is to have preeminence in all things.
As I wrote, 'in my experience'. Nothing scientific about it.
I like to look at the end results, what kind of people do following beliefs create.
Mormonism seems to produce better than average people in my (obviously limited experience). Believing and practicing Christian Protestants and Catholics also fall in that category.
For me, the theological battles are not interesting.
mormonS have a joy for their work? You do realize it’s required to be that to the out side world, they work for their salvation.
God rains on the sinner and the saved.
Don’t mean to sound rude, so forgive me in advance.
The flaw in this “logic” in agreeing with the premise that Christ could have been married vs. the mormons saying He was married is, that based on mormon teachings and beliefs, in order for a man to be exalted (become a GOD) and to be able to achieve the celestial kingdom he MUST be married, have taken out his temple endowments and passed other various checkpoints.
Since the purpose of the temples was eliminated via the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, how could Christ have taken out His endowments in order to attain that which mormons teach and claim is absolutely essential to attaining the CK? IOW, temple marriage?
Were the temples of that era busy in performing celestial sealings, marriages and necro baptisms? I don’t think so...
Be careful in entangling yourself with the mormons...their doctrine is a web of confusion...
OK, well, in my limited experience, the two Mormons I’ve known and worked with both seemed happy, with their work, also.
How much toil would it be worth, if working for it achieved salvation for a person? A few decades versus an eternity, still lots less sweat with the former!
HF
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