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To: Heart-Rest; CynicalBear
Do you mean to say that you honestly don't think that the author's credibility is a valid question to assess in advance, before you read even the first line of an article or book?

Nobody has denied yet that Pope Francis said the words, "If Mary is not your Mother, you are an orphan!". Are you saying we should pretend he didn't just because someone wrote about it that has questionable credibility? Pretty much this whole thread has been addressing actual things Roman Catholics say, teach and believe and whether or not Freepers agree with them or not. I don't think the author really matters here at this point. I question why you would even mention it.

982 posted on 09/17/2014 9:21:43 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"Nobody has denied yet that Pope Francis said the words, "If Mary is not your Mother, you are an orphan!". Are you saying we should pretend he didn't just because someone wrote about it that has questionable credibility? Pretty much this whole thread has been addressing actual things Roman Catholics say, teach and believe and whether or not Freepers agree with them or not. I don't think the author really matters here at this point. I question why you would even mention it."

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I don't know what the Pope tweets -- I never read his tweets, and, frankly, I don't know anybody who does (besides this former Mormon, Jennifer LeClaire, who now claims to be a prophet herself just like Mormon founder, Joseph Smith).  Jennifer LeClaire claims she has received her own visions and revelations from God which add a lot of new material to the revelations found in the Bible (concerning, for example, another new covenant she claims was made between God and the founding fathers of the USA).

My first impression on reading about that completely innocuous tweet (as translated from the words of this non-English-speaking, poetic Pope), and the wildly hysterical overreaction of some protestants (and even "prophets" like this "Jennifer LeClaire"), was that it was "much ado about nothing".

To me, the Pope was just saying (in his own different cultural way) that those who do not seek the help of Mary's prayers for themselves and their loved ones "just don't know what they're missing".

It's kind of like it would be if some vegans did not avail themselves of the fine fish meal Jesus miraculously provided for everyone when He fed the 5,000, or if a teetotaler did not partake of the "best wine" Jesus miraculously provided for everyone at the wedding feast of Cana.    They just wouldn't know what they were missing!

(The same holds true for those who choose to not take advantage of the opportunity to ask Mary to pray for themselves or their loved ones.   They just don't know what they're missing, and as the "Mother of Our Lord", Mary is our spiritual Mother, and those who choose not to take advantage of her intercessory prayers are, metaphorically and poetically speaking of course, choosing to make themselves to some degree "spiritual orphans", in a manner of speaking.)

(Keep in mind that "real" orphans don't just curl up and die.    They have many ways of living and coping and enjoying a very successful life.    It is just sad that they do not have a mother to pray for them, like other folks do.   Now, if someone turns their back on their living mother, and rejects the loving care she wishes to extend to them, they are in a manner of speaking voluntarily choosing to be "orphans".)

Remember too that Jesus (again, in a manner of speaking) is our Brother.

As to your not caring at all about the reliability of a writer who is trying to convince all of us of the points she is asserting, I have to say that is very strange approach to take.    That's how President B-O got elected twice -- too many people just did not care whether he was honest, reliable, truthful, honorable, filled with integrity, and kept his word, or if he did NOT do any of those things.

Too many Americans got bamboozled by him, and too many get bamboozled by used car salesmen, insurence agents, other politicians, and various other con artists and scammers, including whacko Moonbat "cult leaders", authors, and speakers.


President B-O

(I hope you didn't get bamboozled and vote for President B-O, did you boatbums?)    :-)

It is always better to know the honesty, integrity level, and "truthfulness" reputation of ANY author or speaker you read or hear, concerning ANY subject, and to not remain ignorant, uninformed, and completely in the dark about those authors and speakers, and their viewpoints and prejudices.

As an illustration, consider this imaginary scenario.    Picture that you were writing an article about that recent Ferguson shooting, and you wanted to get the perspective of some black men who claimed they were there, and claimed that they witnessed the entire incident.    And assume your objective was not to get their opinions, but that you just wanted a factual description of the unfolding events that fateful day, exactly as they witnessed them.    Now pretend you have rounded up four black men from that scene who claimed they witnessed the entire episode.    Here are those four black men:

 
Rev. Jesse Jackson, Baptist
 
Rev. Al Sharpton, Baptist
 
Rev. Jeremiah Wright, United Church of Christ
 
Dr. Ben Carson, Seventh-day Adventist

If you did not know anything at all about those four people, you might think they are equally honest, reliable, and full of integrity, and that you could trust all of them equally, but if you already knew a little something about them, you would be much better able to judge the reliability and truthfulness level of whatever each of them told you they witnessed that night, even if they each told irreconcilably conflicting versions of the events that night.

Now boatbums, I would strongly urge you to (in the future) start making an effort to learn a lot more about the authors you read, and the speakers you listen to, so you can make a much better assessment of any kind of prejudicial slants or distorting bias they may be putting into their writing or speaking to deceptively sway you.   (The Bible tells us there are many false prophets in the world.)

(And I have to point out that the main article this thread posted was not just a factual description of a brief "tweet", but contained several more assertions than merely that one tweet, all with a particular slant and viewpoint.)    Check out the obvious difference between your own narrow focus and the entire article here for yourself:

The tiny part you wish to selectively focus on boatbums
An honest look at the actual entire article referenced in this post
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"If Mary is not your Mother, you are an orphan!"

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"Pope Francis, Mary Is Not My Mother, and I Am Not an Orphan" - 9/5/2014 - Jennifer LeClaire

Pope Francis has been a breath of fresh air for many Catholics seeking greater liberty and a growing concern for conservative Christians who take issue with his comments about homosexuality and other cultural issues.

But the pontiff's latest statement is sparking an uproar from believers around the world. Pope Francis sent a tweet Tuesday that absolutely violates the truth of Scripture:

"The Christian who does not feel that the Virgin Mary is his or her mother is an orphan," Pope Francis tweeted. As of the time I wrote this column it had been retweeted about 4,000 times and many of the responses were in appropriately unkind. It's not appropriate to attack the pope for his beliefs. It's more appropriate to share the truth.

Mary the Mother to the World?

First, let's explore how the pope expanded on his exaltation of Mary. During his weekly address in Rome, the pope positioned the Roman Catholic Church as a "mother" to the world and encouraged Catholics to follow Mary as an example of godly motherhood.

"In our catecheses, we have often noted that we do not become a Christian on our own, but by being born and nurtured in the faith in the midst of the people of God, that is the church. She is a true mother who gives us life in Christ, and in the communion of the Holy Spirit, brings us into a common life with our brothers and sisters," the pope said.

"The model of motherhood for the church is the Blessed Virgin Mary, who in the fullness of time conceived through the Holy Spirit and gave birth to the Son of God. Her motherhood continues through the church, who brings forth sons and daughters through baptism, whom she nourishes through the Word of God."

What About Romans 8:14-15?

Mary was a humble willing servant and a good example of godly motherhood, but she does not bring forth sons and daughters through baptism or nourish us through the Word of God beyond her example of humble servanthood in the Bible. What concerns me more, though, is the notion of people being orphans if they don't consider Mary their mother. Let's consider this statement in the light of Scripture. Romans 8:14-17 shines light on the issue of orphans in Christ—there are no orphans in Christ:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, 'Abba, Father.' The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together."

Nowhere in these verses does it make mention of Mary. Rather, we see the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit at work in a believer's life. That's Bible. If that's not enough, Jesus Himself stated plainly: "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you" (John 14:18). I don't mean this in a sarcastic manner at all, but please note that Jesus did not say Mary would come to them, or that He would bring Mary with them, or that Mary is praying for them, or that they should pray to Mary.

There are other issues in the Catholic religion that don't line up with Scripture, but suggesting that "The Christian who does not feel that the Virgin Mary is his or her mother is an orphan" contradicts the simplicity of the gospel and excludes the millions of Protestants around the world who honor Mary as the mother of Jesus but do not ask for her help from heaven. Christians are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1)—the righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor. 5:21). Mary was a blessed vessel God chose to bring the Messiah into the world, but Jesus did not exalt her, and neither should we. Let's stand with the simplicity of the gospel.

Jennifer LeClaire is news editor of Charisma. She is also director of Awakening House of Prayer in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and author of several books, including The Making of a Prophet and The Spiritual Warrior's Guide to Defeating Jezebel. You can email Jennifer at jennifer.leclaire@charismamedia.com or visit her website here. You can also join Jennifer on Facebook or follow her on Twitter.

Unless otherwise specified, the opinions expressed are solely the author's and do not necessarily reflect the views of Charisma Media.

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Do you see the difference, when you really take a genuine, sincere, honest look at all of it, instead of just a quick, superficial glance at only a minute portion of it?

Goodnight, and "may the Lord bless you real good".

1,124 posted on 09/19/2014 10:19:50 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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